UPDATE FROM HQ

[k979aaa]

Belle I understand your concerns. Geo route has for some time mapped walks 1st point to last delivery point and then put in replenishment time on top. Anyone who has had a geo route revision over the last 18 months would have a longer delivery than 3.5 hours now. In addition under the geo route system 2008 it does the same. Royal Mail`s belief is that car derived vans will eventually remove the need for replenishment time. I have to say my experience in London on car derived vans is that they dont work however I know that in Plymouth and in other places it does work.

Now your point on door to door is a fair point. However the current status is that Royal Mail currently pay 55 million per year in door to door payments. Now the fact is and I have seen the statistics is that some offices including lots in London do not get 3 per week , in fact some postcodes within offices dont rise above 1. Some offices have even agreed to do more. We also know that door to door quality is poor in some offices is appalling. We already know we have door to door barons who do a large number of door to door items for an office and normally get their families to do it as well. In a number of places casuals end up taking them out or they dont get done. Remember unaddressed items is the one item of mail which is growing still. Yet Royal Mail cannot grow this product if the delivery of the item is still done in this kind of manner.

The real truth of the matter is that over the next few years we are going to see thousands of jobs go on one hand , full time jobs threatened on the other and on top of all this some members still dont want to use door to door as a product to protect full time jobs. By the way Royal Mail believe the initial cost they will have to pay out from day 1 that when door to door is put into workload is 40 million. In some ways its bizzare that we are going to have job loses but Royal Mail will have to invest in offices to get door to door up to a standard particularly in those offices who dont have walk sequencing till 2011.

Look Linkin I was not having a pop at you , at least you were up for the row last year when others were standing on the sidelines. However sometimes if someone gives out plenty of stick then they should be up for a bit coming back. I know I put myself up for a bit of stick by posting on here ignoring most of my mates advice. But some of the posts slagging me off by some individuals not all on this site are clearly a form of bullying. It doesn't worry me , as I have broad shoulders but some other individuals may not.

Wrangled those who know me know I am far from arrogant , however you on the other hand I know a lot about and the way you snipe on here is a reflection of you as a person.

As you say D2D is a growing business but should not our union defend our conditions CDV's do not meet that we all need to return to two deliveries with a break in between as fatigue and facilities and recuperation need to be taken if any more work is taken on if not this will end in a tragedy sooner than later!.

[BELIAL]

I think some people who should know better would be well advised to take two steps back.
The sayings "wood for the trees", and "if you sleep with dogs you get fleas" seem appropriate

[Puppetmaster]

Question For Dingo
Whilst I do agree with everything you say ,at least we are getting some info ,I beleive the CWU ationaly are guilty of poor communication,and being out of touch with the grass roots.

Many of us in my office are seeking answers to questions no one can answer and rumours are really bad ,.

My questions must affect many and are only a handfull.

What happens if you physicaly cannot do or want to do a 4+ hours walk, ?

Do you have to try it and injurie yourself first ,many in my office since Pegus 1 suffer from various conditions affecting backs, legs , feet.
Many cope with it just on a 3.5hr walk but now we are going to be doing far more including ulimited d2d.

Far from volumes dropping our bags are getting heavier and more bags
even pulling a heavy trolley daily takes a toll.

why wont the planning dept test the walks,they state they are not allowed to .

As for replenishment my office we have good van drivers ,and if you have to wait 5 minutes for a bag thats unusual and excessive!
Will non RM drivers be better of ,as they cannot make you do collections ?

Thanks for any info

With later start times ,many have kids to pick up from school,and have wives who work in the afternoon.

PLease Dingo help ? Managers said we have 2 choices, 1 is you know where the door is,wich many of us would go through if we could,and the other is to be gratefull you have a job!

[Body Beyond Repair]

Aint it funny how HQ want the cowboys to do the work and then shoot em through the head with an arrow and say you dont have the responsible that REPs do! Word to the wise, we are the UNION and our REPS jobs is to protect each and every CWU JOB! Dont get us doing your work as normal members and then block us out because WE DONT UNDERSTAND. If we dont its the bloody senior REPS fault! If the Senior REPs have cozzied up to RM its their fault! If Senior REPS have painted themselves into a corner its their fault! INFACT THE SHAMBLES THAT IS THE CWU is the SENIOR REPs FAULT! Do not insult grass roots members and say we dont understand cause we do! SENIOR REPs have FAILED and FAILED BADLY! They jumped into bed with the employer / Government and we as the grassroots are paying the price. What happens now is anyones guess but as a grass roots member i shall fight for EVERY CWU JOB! I DONT EXCEPT CWU HQs /RMs / Governments CUTS to our jobs pay and connditions for ALL THOSE MISTAKES that THEY have made and have been foistered onto our members! If senior CWU members want respect then they need to earn it and this they have clearly failed to do like many other things from its members! Or do dingo`s members pat him on the back and say good job? Dont think so!

Absolutely spot on !!!!!!!

[wolfie citizen smith]

I still believe what I wrote regarding National Talks (which has been locked) is fact as have a very reliable source, dispite what Dingo reckons, no disrespect dingo

[Body Beyond Repair]

Belle I understand your concerns. Geo route has for some time mapped walks 1st point to last delivery point and then put in replenishment time on top. Anyone who has had a geo route revision over the last 18 months would have a longer delivery than 3.5 hours now. In addition under the geo route system 2008 it does the same. Royal Mail`s belief is that car derived vans will eventually remove the need for replenishment time. I have to say my experience in London on car derived vans is that they dont work however I know that in Plymouth and in other places it does work.

Now your point on door to door is a fair point. However the current status is that Royal Mail currently pay 55 million per year in door to door payments. Now the fact is and I have seen the statistics is that some offices including lots in London do not get 3 per week , in fact some postcodes within offices dont rise above 1. Some offices have even agreed to do more. We also know that door to door quality is poor in some offices is appalling. We already know we have door to door barons who do a large number of door to door items for an office and normally get their families to do it as well. In a number of places casuals end up taking them out or they dont get done. Remember unaddressed items is the one item of mail which is growing still. Yet Royal Mail cannot grow this product if the delivery of the item is still done in this kind of manner.

The real truth of the matter is that over the next few years we are going to see thousands of jobs go on one hand , full time jobs threatened on the other and on top of all this some members still dont want to use door to door as a product to protect full time jobs. By the way Royal Mail believe the initial cost they will have to pay out from day 1 that when door to door is put into workload is 40 million. In some ways its bizzare that we are going to have job loses but Royal Mail will have to invest in offices to get door to door up to a standard particularly in those offices who dont have walk sequencing till 2011.

Look Linkin I was not having a pop at you , at least you were up for the row last year when others were standing on the sidelines. However sometimes if someone gives out plenty of stick then they should be up for a bit coming back. I know I put myself up for a bit of stick by posting on here ignoring most of my mates advice. But some of the posts slagging me off by some individuals not all on this site are clearly a form of bullying. It doesn't worry me , as I have broad shoulders but some other individuals may not.

Wrangled those who know me know I am far from arrogant , however you on the other hand I know a lot about and the way you snipe on here is a reflection of you as a person.

Just to be sure Geo Route is an agreed process with the CWU........if not why is it being used and don't blame it on local offices,if it was against national policy then it should never been introduced in its current form anywhere........ Unfortunately the END of the CWU as a national union is well upon us as nothing is agreed nationally anymore guidlines WE ALL HAVE TO WORK TO......... all local now,your posts Dingo more or less elude to the fact.

[Martin Walsh]

I still believe what I wrote regarding National Talks (which has been locked) is fact as have a very reliable source, dispite what Dingo reckons, no disrespect dingo

I think a lot of us know what's in the deal but it's moved 3 times in the last week and will probably move again we will just have to see.

No offence taken

[axeman]

I must admit i'm very ,very worried if the likes of the 'union' reps who post here are to belived word for word then they are rolling over to accomadate royal fail and are really not up to the job ...which is to protect the members 1st and foremost it seems the language used is of the dog licking his masters boots not quite what i expect from a union paid for by it's membership
Time this union got off it's backside and for once listened to the ones who keep it going with weekly funding, if they can't then it's high time we got in place some one with the guts and determination to stand up and be counted

[Martin Walsh]

Belle I understand your concerns. Geo route has for some time mapped walks 1st point to last delivery point and then put in replenishment time on top. Anyone who has had a geo route revision over the last 18 months would have a longer delivery than 3.5 hours now. In addition under the geo route system 2008 it does the same. Royal Mail`s belief is that car derived vans will eventually remove the need for replenishment time. I have to say my experience in London on car derived vans is that they dont work however I know that in Plymouth and in other places it does work.

Now your point on door to door is a fair point. However the current status is that Royal Mail currently pay 55 million per year in door to door payments. Now the fact is and I have seen the statistics is that some offices including lots in London do not get 3 per week , in fact some postcodes within offices dont rise above 1. Some offices have even agreed to do more. We also know that door to door quality is poor in some offices is appalling. We already know we have door to door barons who do a large number of door to door items for an office and normally get their families to do it as well. In a number of places casuals end up taking them out or they dont get done. Remember unaddressed items is the one item of mail which is growing still. Yet Royal Mail cannot grow this product if the delivery of the item is still done in this kind of manner.

The real truth of the matter is that over the next few years we are going to see thousands of jobs go on one hand , full time jobs threatened on the other and on top of all this some members still dont want to use door to door as a product to protect full time jobs. By the way Royal Mail believe the initial cost they will have to pay out from day 1 that when door to door is put into workload is 40 million. In some ways its bizzare that we are going to have job loses but Royal Mail will have to invest in offices to get door to door up to a standard particularly in those offices who dont have walk sequencing till 2011.

Look Linkin I was not having a pop at you , at least you were up for the row last year when others were standing on the sidelines. However sometimes if someone gives out plenty of stick then they should be up for a bit coming back. I know I put myself up for a bit of stick by posting on here ignoring most of my mates advice. But some of the posts slagging me off by some individuals not all on this site are clearly a form of bullying. It doesn't worry me , as I have broad shoulders but some other individuals may not.

Wrangled those who know me know I am far from arrogant , however you on the other hand I know a lot about and the way you snipe on here is a reflection of you as a person.

Just to be sure Geo Route is an agreed process with the CWU........if not why is it being used and don't blame it on local offices,if it was against national policy then it should never been introduced in its current form anywhere........ Unfortunately the END of the CWU as a national union is well upon us as nothing is agreed nationally anymore guidlines WE ALL HAVE TO WORK TO......... all local now,your posts Dingo more or less elude to the fact.

If there is an agreement then it will contained a national agreement on geo route. Yes I do blame offices and Branch`s for doing deals on peagsus in the past because that has made it harder to get a national agreement. Royal Mail`s response was why do we need a national agreement when offices are agreeing to the use of the system.

Lets face facts we carried a national policy that no one should use peagsus until there was a national agreement and then offices and Branch`s then went out and done deals on peagsus thinking they would beat the computer.

[dvbuk55]

We, we, we - always seem to be bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

When the advice was needed it wasn't forthcoming, despite the likes of some suggesting it was a betrayal of the principle of the CWU and when it did arrive it was months too late.

Offices have been left to their own devices and it is all very well spouting how strong we were - but that is in isolation, how strong would these same people be with offices with less than a 70% union membership and part timers running at 40% of total - probably closer to the norm than the nil part timers in other areas.

I don't buy this holier than thou attitude of some posters on here, it would appear that there is a definite attempt to rewrite history. Some posters on here would be amazed at the shift in managerial strength when a large proportion of the work force is part time and reliant on overtime to make a living wage.

[POSTMAN]

I don't buy this holier than thou attitude of some posters on here, it would appear that there is a definite attempt to rewrite history. Some posters on here would be amazed at the shift in managerial strength when a large proportion of the work force is part time and reliant on overtime to make a living wage.

I aggree with you dv,as i said in another post....

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 00#p240800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ignorant blue shirts are as much to blame as management,sad................very sad.

Interestingly,i think the CWU should step up to the plate here,with so many of them now,the subs being lost because the reps aren't too bothered with them can't be good.

Give it a few years,bye bye CWU.

[BELIAL]

Maybe I'm a weirdo ,but all this is not what I pay my union subs for.
'just get used to job cuts;just get used to pay cuts;just get used to pension cuts;just get used to increased workload:it's sad but it is all your own fault'
Well not to worry ,if present trends continue and our leadership leads us down a blind alley again then it will only be a matter of months before RM can legally play the de-recognition card. Part of me says we me be better off in the long run if we build again from scratch

[belle smith]

Cheers for the responce dingo. I have to say i'am aprehensive about this agreement thought, largly thanks to the capitulation last time round. i'll pay you the curtesy of assuming that you where opposed to the 2007 deal as many branches were, including my own.

I realise you get a lot of stick on here, again it's not personnel thanks for using your free time to help keep us informed.

[wabbithunta]

I don't want to trawl through all of the previous pages (38, including this one) to find out about one thing that I didn't see in the first 6 pages I looked at quickly.... let alone in the "announcement" from the CWU.

PENSIONS

Do they not care about the fact that there are one heck of a lot of posties that have paid in to the pension pot for a good number of years and now will not get back what they paid in to it? Are that lot at the top end of the CWU sitting there in their little ivory tower happy in the knowledge that they, no doubt,are going to be ok in their dotage, unlike the people who pay for them to be there via subscriptions to a Union that just doesn't really seem to care. (cue UB40 singing "One in Ten")

Have they, the CWU, given up on this then, or did they just not even bother about it? I've only been a postie now for around 6 years now, I was made redundant from a previous job where the company followed the same "model" that RM are using.
RM call it "Worktime Learning", here at my DO we we call it "Shirktime Learning", whereby, as you know, RM attempt to browbeat you with their propaganda as at my previous job it was called "Continuous Improvement", we called it "Continuous Disprovement". In the offices they referred to the Call Centre that was set up for customers to call with regard jobs on order/placing orders as the "Job Prevention Centre". The people there were drafted in from the locale where it was located as well as being mainly part time too, if I recall correctly. They had very little knowledge, or in some cases, none at all(!), of what they were dealing with and messed up work orders as well as losing jobs in the system and also released jobs late, so we, the people on the shop floor then had to rush around getting work completed "double time" to get them out of the door on time so we didn't lose any money on the jobs or the company would lose the order(s) as they were not completed on time etc.
Sounds familiar does it?


Are we all about to be sold down the river again? I do hope not!


An old joke that sums up what's going on right now.

Who is the boss?

When the body was first made, all the parts wanted to be the boss.
The brain said, "since I control everything and do all the thinking, I should be the boss."
The feet said, "since I carry man where he wants to go and get him in position to do what the brain wants, then I should be the boss."
The hands said, "since I must do all the work and earn all the money to keep the rest of you going, I should be the boss."
And so it went with the eyes, the heart, the lungs, and all the other parts of the body, each giving the reason why they should be the boss.
Finally, the asshole spoke up and said it was going to be the boss.
All the other parts laughed and laughed at the idea of the asshole being the boss.
The asshole got so angry that he blocked himself off and refused to function.
Soon the brain was feverish and could barely think, the feet felt like lead weights and was almost too weak to drag the body anywhere, the eyes grew bleary, and the hands hung useless at the sides. All pleaded with the brain to let the asshole be declared the boss.
And so it happened; all the other parts did all the work and the asshole just bossed and passed out a lot of crap.

THE MORAL: You don't have to be a brain to be a boss, just an old asshole.

Alternate moral: No matter how well things are going, it can all be shut down by a single asshole.

[Big Daz]

If there is an agreement then it will contained a national agreement on geo route. Yes I do blame offices and Branch`s for doing deals on peagsus in the past because that has made it harder to get a national agreement. Royal Mail`s response was why do we need a national agreement when offices are agreeing to the use of the system.

Lets face facts we carried a national policy that no one should use peagsus until there was a national agreement and then offices and Branch`s then went out and done deals on peagsus thinking they would beat the computer.

When did this come into being as I wish to check the date against the agreement for pegasus revisions in the PE and CB postcode areas. I belive the agreement was made 2007 so if the national policy came into force after area agreements were made what should have happeend to those area agreements? Planning on pegasus at my D.O commenced Feb 2008 and was implemented November 2008 after the membership in my D.O voted yes.