UPDATE FROM HQ

[clashcityrocker]

I don't know how much longer I can carry on.
Carry on Doctor!

Should be "Carry on up the (I don't give)ATOS"

[smokerjim]

Last of talks regardless of if there is an agreement will be next monday. Positions have narrowed but there are still outstanding issues.

Hang on, I thought a few months ago ( or was it years, I can't quite recall ) it was "everything agreed or nothing agreed" - now we have "Next Monday or bust"....does that mean that whatever is agreed is going to the PEC ( and then, maybe to us....even if some small details - aka huge loopholes RM WILL drive an artic through - are left for another time ), or does it mean all the waiting, wailing and gnashing of teeth since the end of the strikes will have been wasted? Either way, imo, it looks like there could be some egg on Union faces, and RM could be busting their shite laughing

[robd]

Only one small loophole....the Pension.

[Destroyer]

it looks like there could be some egg on Union faces, and RM could be busting their shite laughing

Not Double Egg Again ??



Dave 'Minty' Ward

[Martin Walsh]

There is still some outstanding issues but most of has now been agreed.

Monday is deadline day. Both sides realise this maybe for different reasons. The CWU realise that time is running out on the chance to influence the government before they close down parliment for the general election campaign. Equally we need to communicate with the members on either the deal or the progress of the talks.

Royal Mail want that as a deadline as they have pressure from the board and the operations as all their savings plans have been on hold now since October. This includes two new regional mail centre reviews.

At the moment the talks are finely balanced. The future in Royal Mail without a national agreement will be a disaster but the agreement has to be the right one and we are not there yet. I for one would not put money on either outcome its that tight a call.

Remember these talks have covered a range of issues and if there is an agreement this will be the longest agreement in the unions history running at 62 pages now and still not concluded. Now you will realise thats why its taking so long.

Members will only get a vote if there is an agreement and if the PEC endorse the agreement.

[robd]

Dingo,
So after months of negotiation,or perhaps more aptly Cat and Mouse,the messages that we are getting
appear to suggest that RM may yet simply pull the rug from under us?
You imply that the future without agreement would be a disaster,do you mean for all parties?
Could you see a scenario where individual agreements are signed off,for example both sides are happy with
mail centres,distribution,but talks regarding deliveries would have to continue,or is this not an option?

[fishtank]

Dingo,
So after months of negotiation,or perhaps more aptly Cat and Mouse,the messages that we are getting
appear to suggest that RM may yet simply pull the rug from under us?
You imply that the future without agreement would be a disaster,do you mean for all parties?
Could you see a scenario where individual agreements are signed off,for example both sides are happy with
mail centres,distribution,but talks regarding deliveries would have to continue,or is this not an option?

According to Lovejoy No.

So this may be a deal with some issue(s) set aside for future negotiations?

No! This deal will settle it all one way or the other - that is why it is taking so long. In my view it is vital to get the right deal and not a quick deal.

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo,
So after months of negotiation,or perhaps more aptly Cat and Mouse,the messages that we are getting
appear to suggest that RM may yet simply pull the rug from under us?
You imply that the future without agreement would be a disaster,do you mean for all parties?
Could you see a scenario where individual agreements are signed off,for example both sides are happy with
mail centres,distribution,but talks regarding deliveries would have to continue,or is this not an option?

If there is a deal it will include all the elements which have been agreed, there will be futher things which will be subject to futher talks and guidelines but in the main it will cover all the big ticket issues.

I think no agreement would be a disaster for us. Remember there are people facing mail centre clousres now, 200 members in Crewe have no jobs and could face complusory redundancies, you ask them if they want wants in the national agreement. The union has managed to ensure that no further work is transfered until these 200 people are protected. Remember we had the same problem in Stoke.

In addition we have the South East review which will close a number of mail centres and the North East review will also do the same. These will happen with or without an agreement.

Plus walk sequencing is happening now and at the moment walk bundles are being used Saturday whats happens when this changes. Plus a whole range of other issue which are catered for in the national agreement.

Of course the benefits must be right but who remembers the number of banners and placards on picket lines which said this strike is not about pay. Its about our future.

We all hope it is the right agreement. Of course some will not like it , but the question is not about the miniority its about the majority and that is what decide if there is an agreement in the end not who shouts the loudest or who types the faster or the most.

[dvbuk55]

Dingo,
So after months of negotiation,or perhaps more aptly Cat and Mouse,the messages that we are getting
appear to suggest that RM may yet simply pull the rug from under us?
You imply that the future without agreement would be a disaster,do you mean for all parties?
Could you see a scenario where individual agreements are signed off,for example both sides are happy with
mail centres,distribution,but talks regarding deliveries would have to continue,or is this not an option?

If there is a deal it will include all the elements which have been agreed, there will be futher things which will be subject to futher talks and guidelines but in the main it will cover all the big ticket issues.

I think no agreement would be a disaster for us. Remember there are people facing mail centre clousres now, 200 members in Crewe have no jobs and could face complusory redundancies, you ask them if they want wants in the national agreement. The union has managed to ensure that no further work is transfered until these 200 people are protected. Remember we had the same problem in Stoke.

In addition we have the South East review which will close a number of mail centres and the North East review will also do the same. These will happen with or without an agreement.

Plus walk sequencing is happening now and at the moment walk bundles are being used Saturday whats happens when this changes. Plus a whole range of other issue which are catered for in the national agreement.

Of course the benefits must be right but who remembers the number of banners and placards on picket lines which said this strike is not about pay. Its about our future.

We all hope it is the right agreement. Of course some will not like it , but the question is not about the miniority its about the majority and that is what decide if there is an agreement in the end not who shouts the loudest or who types the faster or the most.

Well you certainly got that bit right!

Anyone remember Horace Batchelor from Keynsham Bristol? You had to pay him to predict what the 8 score draws would be on Saturday - well there would be an element of people who would be satisfied with his predictions because he sent so many predictions out someone was going to get very lucky and some just lucky but for the most part you would be just as well guessing your own.

[fishtank]

dingo wrote
"If there is a deal it will include all the elements which have been agreed, there will be futher things which will be subject to futher talks and guidelines but in the main it will cover all the big ticket issues"

Bit of a step back from "Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed"

"I think no agreement would be a disaster for us."
Yes it would but so will the wrong agreement or half an agreement.

"Remember there are people facing mail centre clousres now, 200 members in Crewe have no jobs and could face complusory redundancies, you ask them if they want wants in the national agreement."

Why compulsory redundancies dingo? Have Royal mail actually threatened those at Crewe with compulsory redundancy?
Royal Mail has insisted that it will abide by it's policy of implementing only voluntary redundancies so why make this statement?
Is it just to up the pressure a bit.A bit of emotional blackmail perhaps?

"We all hope it is the right agreement. Of course some will not like it , but the question is not about the miniority ."
You have already placed those who won't like it in the minority bracket dingo. Are you psychic?
Stop trying to sell us a deal that doesn't even exist yet .

[dvbuk55]

Hence my reference to HB - there was so many predictions and pernutations he had to nail a few

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk the difference between me , you and fishtank is I am a rep and therefore have a responsbility to the members I reprsent in processing , distribution, network and delliveries and therefore have to look at the whole picture and weigh it up and consult with reps and members in order to make a decision on whether the agreement is good enough or not and what other alternatives there are.

Yourself and Dvbuk have a more simple task you can make your decison knowing you have no repsonsibility to any other member and wont have to deal with the aftermath either in introducing the agreement or dealing with the fall out of not having an agreement.

I notice Fishtank was asked to step up to the plate to be a rep in this thread . i wonder if you have taken up the challenge.

For the record being a rep is not an easy job and certainly not a job if you wish to be popular but it is a job that is rewarding if you believe in defending members intrests and dealing with the issues which are at the heart of the problems within the industry.

I do meetings with members in lots of different locations and I nicname some people the canteen cowboys , these are the members who normally shout the loudest moaning about anything and everything but never have the solutions. In my opinion we have a few internet cowboys.

Some posters need to get in the real world and recognise there are no easy decisions anymore in this industry. Be that mail centre closures , RDC closures , walk seqeuncing , job losses , later starts , door 2 door , attacks on full time jobs , saturdays being just another working day or the fact that the pension scheme may be closed. All of these things are going to happen the question is are they done within the confines of an agreement sercuring benefits and safeguards or are they done without an agreement and every offices fights those issues on their own.

For the record fishtank why dont you ring the Crewe Branch or the divisonal rep and find out for yourself, there is no emontional blackmail. I was at the meeting yesterday where the North West divisonal rep announced it and so did the DGSP and what they were trying to do to stop it. Get in the real world , if your moving the mail centre 40 miles down the road not everyone wants to go and some dont want voluntary redundancies so thats where the problem is.

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk the difference between me , you and fishtank is I am a rep and therefore have a responsbility to the members I reprsent in processing , distribution, network and delliveries and therefore have to look at the whole picture and weigh it up and consult with reps and members in order to make a decision on whether the agreement is good enough or not and what other alternatives there are.

Yourself and Dvbuk have a more simple task you can make your decison knowing you have no repsonsibility to any other member and wont have to deal with the aftermath either in introducing the agreement or dealing with the fall out of not having an agreement.

I notice Fishtank was asked to step up to the plate to be a rep in this thread . i wonder if you have taken up the challenge.

For the record being a rep is not an easy job and certainly not a job if you wish to be popular but it is a job that is rewarding if you believe in defending members intrests and dealing with the issues which are at the heart of the problems within the industry.

I do meetings with members in lots of different locations and I nicname some people the canteen cowboys , these are the members who normally shout the loudest moaning about anything and everything but never have the solutions. In my opinion we have a few internet cowboys.

Some posters need to get in the real world and recognise there are no easy decisions anymore in this industry. Be that mail centre closures , RDC closures , walk seqeuncing , job losses , later starts , door 2 door , attacks on full time jobs , saturdays being just another working day or the fact that the pension scheme may be closed. All of these things are going to happen the question is are they done within the confines of an agreement sercuring benefits and safeguards or are they done without an agreement and every offices fights those issues on their own.

For the record fishtank why dont you ring the Crewe Branch or the divisonal rep and find out for yourself, there is no emontional blackmail. I was at the meeting yesterday where the North West divisonal rep announced it and so did the DGSP and what they were trying to do to stop it. Get in the real world , if your moving the mail centre 40 miles down the road not everyone wants to go and some dont want voluntary redundancies so thats where the problem is.

Wow that was a long post Dingo, you weren't shouting by any chance. Yes Dingo there are canteen cowboys and there are those full of themselves and crap.

[fishtank]

dingo wrote
" notice Fishtank was asked to step up to the plate to be a rep in this thread . i wonder if you have taken up the challenge."

Ahh Yes dingo I had forgotten about Hooty and your childish little game.

dates
Sent: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:04,pm
From: HootyMacBoob
To: fishtank

thanx dingo,I see fishgob aint answered my post asking him to walk walk.
viewtopic.php

And i thought trying to flush out information on members was against the rules.

[sirtophat]

dingo
I would like to say THANK YOU because you are the only one keeping us informed.