UPDATE FROM HQ

[Pat Ostman]

The Government has placed a red sheet underneath us all, they are now just waiting to pull the cloth on us.

[Eric]

Dingo, you keep saying that one of the reasons we have to accept that RM is potless ( which means RM expect US to be potless ) is that DSA has taken over a huge amount of RMs income, but you say nothing of the Union initiating a campaign, either inclusive or exclusive of the public, to highlight this problem and to try to change it - the facts of RMs current loss of income are known to politicians, and are becoming known to the general public - why is this? Is it because the Union have given it up because they think you might as well shout at the moon for all the good it will do, or is it the Union were involved in the negotiations in some way, and don't want any embarrassing revelations?

Something NEEDS to be done about DSA - the heads of RM, if not the architects of DSA at it's introduction ( L&C ) have now gone, with handsome rewards, into the sunset, while we are left to struggle on with this albatross around our necks.....does the Union have ANYTHING to say about DSA other than "Oh dear, what can we do? We just have to muddle along as best as we can, and hope it sorts itself out soon"

Spot on! We know the government lackeys currently running Royal Mail are not going to jeopardise their bonuses by complaining about DSA but why are the union complicit in this conspiracy of silence? Every time Billy and Dave are on tv they should be screaming about the injustice of DSA. We should be striking about it.To my mind it needs publicising more than the pension issue which the union seems obsessed with. The time to have fought on pensions was before they slashed them. Does anyone seriously think the government will renege on paying them? Sort out the DSA issue and there would be more funds to finance our pensions.

[Danelectro]

Smoker good question ! The union did launch a major campaign on unfair regulation including downstream access ! Infact we even got it within the labour manifesto .

This is why the hooper report was commisioned. Mandleson then got hold of it and part of the hooper report states that royal mail could run with 50 per cent of mail centres which surprise surprise royal mail want in the first place.

The governments postion on downstream access is that if they do any changes on it now which has a damaging effect on those companies like TNT , uk mail etc then they will face multi million pounds law suits as these companies entered the Market and invested millions of pounds into the mail industry and it would amount to unfair competition if the government now changed the rules .

Of course the union is still trying but we and royal mail have been well and truely sharfted.

so exactly what was the point of the keep the post public campaign? and how much of our union fees were used to finance taking a bus up and down the country,giant bill posters in supermarkets and handing out t-shirts and balloons at the angel o the north etc? All this was happening while members were being bullied up and down the country and cutting their own throats by delivering DSA and making millions for private companies.

You say the government would face law suits for changing the price for DSA?In all my puff ive never heard of any business being taking to court for raising its prices to at least break even.As WE keep getting told thats the reality of competition thats the MARKET!

So ok its all too late now ,well then the PEC and the leadership should resign or at least admit they have consistently got their tactics wrong over the last 4 years.We might have ended up in the same place but to deny the workforce one last chance to stand and fight for as Billy Hayes says 'a much treasured british institution' is criminal.Its time the unions changed or got out of the Labour party that they started and look for some other party to represent their agenda,cos the third way ended up in the biggest recession since the 30's and now we are being told to pull our belts in for the next 15 years while the media circus on behalf of the rich get behind that clown David Cameron and the BNP pick up votes from former Labour strongholds.

Wont get fooled again? my arse

[Martin Walsh]

The whole point of the campaign was to defeat the sell off of the industry which in case you have forgotten was successful.

Now I never mentioned the price of downstream access as being the reason for any future court case. The future court case would be if you change the competitions entrance into the Market or changed the benefits they currently recieve. In terms of the price that is subject to regulation albeit croZier agreed the 13.5 price.

So you think the union has failed you , well this union has defeated privatisation 3 times no other union has , no one has ever been made complusory redundant, we have good terms and conditions including sick pay, holiday pay and we are still strong in the workplace! Yes the industry is changing for the worse but the union is still fighting for your future. Some of you think the union can stop the problems of the future or even worse think the union is at fault for these problems. You only have to look at all the other postal industries in the world to see that they are also faxing the same problems including facing pay cuts.

[Danelectro]

The whole point of the campaign was to defeat the sell off of the industry which in case you have forgotten was successful.

Now I never mentioned the price of downstream access as being the reason for any future court case. The future court case would be if you change the competitions entrance into the Market or changed the benefits they currently recieve. In terms of the price that is subject to regulation albeit croZier agreed the 13.5 price.

So you think the union has failed you , well this union has defeated privatisation 3 times no other union has , no one has ever been made complusory redundant, we have good terms and conditions including sick pay, holiday pay and we are still strong in the workplace! Yes the industry is changing for the worse but the union is still fighting for your future. Some of you think the union can stop the problems of the future or even worse think the union is at fault for these problems. You only have to look at all the other postal industries in the world to see that they are also faxing the same problems including facing pay cuts.

Not wanting to nitpick but according to peter mandelson,part privatisation has been put on hold,i presume on hold until as the media keep telling us the tories get in.My point is you have given reasons for this that and the other and saying its too late and my point is the 2007 agreement was pretty short sighted and some of the other campaigns were designed to not upset the labour party and in doing so we are left delivering mail at a cost for private companies.Billy Hayes said in a recent interview that the model for USO was not sustainable and the DSA regulations put on royal mail were far worse than any other of the countries going down that same road.Is this new agreement gonna change any of the above? If your saying we cant learn any lessons from the last 13 years of being in bed with new labour,then i find that hard to take.

As for the union failing me,im a member,i am the union along with all the rest.I dont think this union can stop the march to the right alone but we can no longer pay money to a party that thinks we are a relic of the past and irrelevant.

[dvbuk55]

I feel really sorry that TNT et al have invested in a system which actually gives them an unfair advantage in the postal service because the Government/Royal Mail got the pricing wrong. So rather than face the wrath of the courts this Labour Government which has been supported by this union is prepared to see the demolition of a once truly great public service rather than correct an obvious fault.

Well if I went into a supermarket and I found a product that was obviously underpriced and the supermarket didn't notice it at first and sold it too cheaply, on a review they would notice the fault and amend the price and when I went into the store the next time the price would double - rather than pay the going rate would I drag them through the court? Of course not.

In a court case it could be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the pricing structure is wrong and that we are providing a service at below cost and no way would a court uphold the pricing structure.

So having firmly knocked that scenario on the head what is the real reason for this ludicrous state of affairs. Well it would seem obvious that our friends in government are setting us up for the chop, run down profits, run down the service, run down the building costs, and when the price is balanced goodnight vienna - probably selling us off to the very firms who have saved millions of pounds by getting a cheap service.

[hubbahubba]

I feel really sorry that TNT et al have invested in a system which actually gives them an unfair advantage in the postal service because the Government/Royal Mail got the pricing wrong. So rather than face the wrath of the courts this Labour Government which has been supported by this union is prepared to see the demolition of a once truly great public service rather than correct an obvious fault.

Well if I went into a supermarket and I found a product that was obviously underpriced and the supermarket didn't notice it at first and sold it too cheaply, on a review they would notice the fault and amend the price and when I went into the store the next time the price would double - rather than pay the going rate would I drag them through the court? Of course not.

In a court case it could be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the pricing structure is wrong and that we are providing a service at below cost and no way would a court uphold the pricing structure.

So having firmly knocked that scenario on the head what is the real reason for this ludicrous state of affairs. Well it would seem obvious that our friends in government are setting us up for the chop, run down profits, run down the service, run down the building costs, and when the price is balanced goodnight vienna - probably selling us off to the very firms who have saved millions of pounds by getting a cheap service.

[stevie247]

I feel really sorry that TNT et al have invested in a system which actually gives them an unfair advantage in the postal service because the Government/Royal Mail got the pricing wrong. So rather than face the wrath of the courts this Labour Government which has been supported by this union is prepared to see the demolition of a once truly great public service rather than correct an obvious fault.

Well if I went into a supermarket and I found a product that was obviously underpriced and the supermarket didn't notice it at first and sold it too cheaply, on a review they would notice the fault and amend the price and when I went into the store the next time the price would double - rather than pay the going rate would I drag them through the court? Of course not.

In a court case it could be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the pricing structure is wrong and that we are providing a service at below cost and no way would a court uphold the pricing structure.

So having firmly knocked that scenario on the head what is the real reason for this ludicrous state of affairs. Well it would seem obvious that our friends in government are setting us up for the chop, run down profits, run down the service, run down the building costs, and when the price is balanced goodnight vienna - probably selling us off to the very firms who have saved millions of pounds by getting a cheap service.

Absolutely spot on

[Martin Walsh]

Last of talks regardless of if there is an agreement will be next monday. Positions have narrowed but there are still outstanding issues.

[red72]

Last of talks regardless of if there is an agreement will be next monday. Positions have narrowed but there are still outstanding issues.

And if those issues are not sorted then what ?

[disheartened]

Last of talks regardless of if there is an agreement will be next monday. Positions have narrowed but there are still outstanding issues.

Hello Dingo.......What are the outstanding issues,if you are permitted to say.

D

[Rommagic]

Last of talks regardless of if there is an agreement will be next monday. Positions have narrowed but there are still outstanding issues.

Have they got days off on thursday and friday?.

[dvbuk55]

Was there not a film called "The never ending story" - they should make a film about these negotiations - now what should they call it I wonder - "100 days in the Secret Place" or "The Windy City".

These talks have had more final days than Jerry Lee Lewis had comebacks!

[fishtank]

Was there not a film called "The never ending story" - they should make a film about these negotiations - now what should they call it I wonder - "100 days in the Secret Place" or "The Windy City".

These talks have had more final days than Jerry Lee Lewis had comebacks!

Yes Dvb but according to sources RM keep coming back with improved offers so presumably we will all be on bankers salaries by the time this finishes.

[dvbuk55]

Was there not a film called "The never ending story" - they should make a film about these negotiations - now what should they call it I wonder - "100 days in the Secret Place" or "The Windy City".

These talks have had more final days than Jerry Lee Lewis had comebacks!

Yes Dvb but according to sources RM keep coming back with improved offers so presumably we will all be on bankers salaries by the time this finishes.

Well lets just hope that we get to a final offer that falls short of the final solution

If those bankers are sharing 1.3 billion of our money for failure I can't wait to see how much we'll be getting for making a profit.