UPDATE FROM HQ

[gb93]

Thanks for keeping us informed as much as you can dingo.In your opinion do you think we will have had a vote and result before end of April, as even for the most patient among us this is starting to drag on a little.

[falkor]

Dingo, Is seniority being looked at within the deal, heard rumours that it is to be scrapped.
I know you can't give much away but is it an issue being discussed between RM and the union.

[Martin Walsh]

Floyddy no the figures on most of what was stated is wrong , only 2 and 3 is right.

Some of the others are wide of the mark, some close. Plus there things missing including two big payments.

No seniority is not going .

Look it is not right that people are putting up the proposed offer and are not telling the truth , second hand gossip.

The offer has moved again and will continue to move until the deal is known.

[fishtank]

Floyddy no the figures on most of what was stated is wrong , only 2 and 3 is right.

Some of the others are wide of the mark, some close. Plus there things missing including two big payments.

No seniority is not going .

Look it is not right that people are putting up the proposed offer and are not telling the truth , second hand gossip.

The offer has moved again and will continue to move until the deal is known.

Are the two BIG payments based on the collegueshare money?

[floydy]

Cheers Dingo

[clashcityrocker]

Are the two BIG payments based on the collegueshare money?

And how BIG is BIG?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

for me there are 3 things that will either make a break the deal personally, and 1 that does not affect me personally but would still affect my vote

Reduction in Working week - if not gross its a NO.

D2D supplement must mean no loss in average take home approx £25 - £30 per week
ATM (thats based on a 40 week year (Xmas and leave taken out) quick maths would be a minimum £20 if paid every week over 52 weeks. However, will this be linked to pay increases in the future or left as it is now. and would we be expected to deliver over xmas as well (both would weaken the deal if I got the wrong answer)

Saturdays as normal days without sufficient incentives for me to accept.

================================================================

The package on Mail Centres and RDCs and what will happen to members who are in targeted offices.

I am afraid this one could be the reverse of the P&M07 agreement where MCs were not affected and either through apathy in Deliveries, or good union organisation in MCs meant that most members voted,and most voted as per Branch and HQ recommendation as they did not understand the impact it would have on deliveries.

As I said before RM were dependant on apathy and ignorance for the 07 deal, nothing may have changed for 2010 but I really hope I am wrong.

[falkor]

Thanks Dingo, very much appreciated, I have over thirty years service and rumours like that make me nervous.

[Cut Off King]

2)£30 a week pay rise for delivery staff (due to D2d's)including any allowances you already get.
3) £500 in April

Floyddy no the figures on most of what was stated is wrong , only 2 and 3 is right.

#3 I expected, but #2 would be a pay cut -
52 x £30 = £1560
However I recieve shift allowance & driving allowance and D2D payments
52 x £6 = £312
52 x £12 =624
43 x £25 = 1075
TOTAL = £2011

£2011 - £1560 = A LOSS OF £451 per year, EVERY YEAR.

Thats 25% LESS than I recieve now !

If this is true then most members with more than say 10 years service (who have grandfather rights to their allowances ) are going to be worse off

[Pat Ostman]

IPS i dont see how ft/ft in a van works because in our office f/t staff are ready well before p/t staff and if that was carried forward to van deliveries then 2 f/t staff would have more time to complete than say f/t p/t, and your right the only difference is indoor work and they finish that well within thier time so you must have people on delivery well before others

Full time staff normally have more time to complete than part time staff not only because they usually start earlier on delivery but (in our office) their last letter time is later as well. A double insult to part time staff who come into an unprepped or semi complete frame. Our Union rep tells us to cut off, really that's his answer to everything.

But really no surprise as part time staff are scum in RM eyes (and sadly some of my colleagues eyes as well).

New week, different shafting! In fact I am impressed that they always find new ways each day to make my life more intolerable. Gotta hand it to them in a way.

[Martin Walsh]

Thanks Dingo, very much appreciated, I have over thirty years service and rumours like that make me nervous.

Of course they do , I think they are designed to do so.

Look door to door will be included into workload , but the fear of suddenly everyone will recieve 5 or more is a red herring. Hopefully the product will grow but to do so Royal Mail will have to relauch the product as quality is poor in a lot of areas on door to door. Another red herring is that mail sort posters will down dial to door to door its a different market entirely.

However the advantage from door to door into workload if you have 20 walks in an office with 700 delivery points and you now have them included in your offices traffic figures will be an extra 42 000 items per week in your offices workload and will protect jobs in the future especially as walk sequencing comes in and reduces total prep time on addressed items. This is in addition to recieving a week supplement

The Union has not and will not agree to mail centre clousres but just like with crown offices just because a union objects to closures does not mean they survive. We all know sadly that due to de -regulation ( downstream access , a reduction in traffic , one outward pass that some mail centres and RDCs are earmarked for closeure. Regardsless of whether a national agreement is reached or not this will not stop Royal Mail from reducing the number of mail centres.

The question is do we want an agreement which puts in a consultation process , improves MTSF and protects from complusory redundancies or do we just man the lifeboats when a mail centre is chosen for closure.

So you see in life there are no easy choices , everyone wishe s things were different and we could protect every job and every term and condition we have but that world has long gone in Royal Mail.

[kh]

dingo is monthly pay in it if can you go on to it if you want to

[fishtank]

dingo wrote
Look door to door will be included into workload , but the fear of suddenly everyone will recieve 5 or more is a red herring. Hopefully the product will grow but to do so Royal Mail will have to relauch the product as quality is poor in a lot of areas on door to door. Another red herring is that mail sort posters will down dial to door to door its a different market entirely.


This is a LONG term decision the members will be asked to make.
It would be reckless to make that decision on the hope that RM fail to grow the product.
I think it would be much more sensible for the members to assume they will be delivering more D2D in the future.

[heapsy]

Its a done deal then... I mean all these above who don't currently get D2D money are laughing. 6.5% over 3 years + £1500 and maybe some other bonus that you are not mentioning yet... and an extra £30 per week. They won't even bother reading anything else... oh and working 2 hours less... god it will be "where do I sign"!

I remember when the Way Forward Agreement was voted in & the biggest losers were the Drivers - i cant remember the PHG's or Delivery boys voting as a 'Union' then ?? In fact i am still to meet anyone that will openly admit to voting for The Way Forward ?? It sounds a fair deal to me.

Can I just clarify your post? With the Way Forward ( before my time admittedly ), in your opinion, the drivers took the biggest hit and gained the least / lost the most - is that right? So, now that it looks that drivers will do alright out of this agreement ( certainly better than deliveries ) does that make it ok to think "I'm alright, Jack"?

You are wrong there mate. In my experience, as with every reshuffle, the drivers have got off lightly. Let's take SDD in our office for example. We had before the revision, 72 walks. Now we are down to 55. That was 17 walks lost in 1 go. The drivers didn't take hardly anything of this workload. The vast majority was dumped on the remaining walkers. Then sometime later, (can't remember how much later) hey presto, the walkers took another hit. the walks were never checked and therefore have been unbalanced since day 1. The saving will come mainly from the walkers with very little being sacrificed by anybody else. It has always been that way and always will. What really pisses many of my workmates and myself off is that the majority of drivers couldn't do a walk. That's why they got on the vans in the first place.

[BELIAL]

The Union has not and will not agree to mail centre clousres but just like with crown offices just because a union objects to closures does not mean they survive. We all know sadly that due to de -regulation ( downstream access , a reduction in traffic , one outward pass that some mail centres and RDCs are earmarked for closeure. Regardsless of whether a national agreement is reached or not this will not stop Royal Mail from reducing the number of mail centres.

The question is do we want an agreement which puts in a consultation process , improves MTSF and protects from complusory redundancies or do we just man the lifeboats when a mail centre is chosen for closure.

So you see in life there are no easy choices , everyone wishe s things were different and we could protect every job and every term and condition we have but that world has long gone in Royal Mail.

I can't quite believe my eyes. This is the single most shocking statement I think I've read during this dispute. You've just confirmed nearly every criticism that's been leveled at the union leadership recently. If ever Stage3 needed more confirmation of the accuracy of his conclusions ,this is it.
"sadly" due to de-regulation; DSA. The single biggest cosh used to batter the workforce into more workload and cuts in their terms and our union thinks it is sad but meets this change with passive acceptance .
Where is the national campaign, public and in the workplace to highlight this obscene exploitation of a public service. A fat cats cherry picking charter that will cost thousands of members their jobs . "keep the post Public" is pointless if all we do is deliver TNT mail for the minimum wage.
And as for your last sentence ,god help us.
You" wish" it was different but it is a race to the bottom and all the union is prepared to do is moderate the speed of descent.
Tell you what, I don't think many of the membership are going to be very happy if those words are a guide to the thinking of our leadership.