UPDATE FROM HQ

[Pat Ostman]

It's never 'all right' to think 'i'm all right Jack"

[POSTMAN]

Its a done deal then... I mean all these above who don't currently get D2D money are laughing. 6.5% over 3 years + £1500 and maybe some other bonus that you are not mentioning yet... and an extra £30 per week. They won't even bother reading anything else... oh and working 2 hours less... god it will be "where do I sign"!

I remember when the Way Forward Agreement was voted in & the biggest losers were the Drivers - i cant remember the PHG's or Delivery boys voting as a 'Union' then ?? In fact i am still to meet anyone that will openly admit to voting for The Way Forward ?? It sounds a fair deal to me.

Can I just clarify your post? With the Way Forward ( before my time admittedly ), in your opinion, the drivers took the biggest hit and gained the least / lost the most - is that right? So, now that it looks that drivers will do alright out of this agreement ( certainly better than deliveries ) does that make it ok to think "I'm alright, Jack"?

I'm confused in what he is saying jim,i can't see him meaning DO drivers,if he means the network/MC drivers i can't rem regarding the way forward,but they had their own deal in p&m anyway didn't they.

[Destroyer]

Its a done deal then... I mean all these above who don't currently get D2D money are laughing. 6.5% over 3 years + £1500 and maybe some other bonus that you are not mentioning yet... and an extra £30 per week. They won't even bother reading anything else... oh and working 2 hours less... god it will be "where do I sign"!

I remember when the Way Forward Agreement was voted in & the biggest losers were the Drivers - i cant remember the PHG's or Delivery boys voting as a 'Union' then ?? In fact i am still to meet anyone that will openly admit to voting for The Way Forward ?? It sounds a fair deal to me.

Can I just clarify your post? With the Way Forward ( before my time admittedly ), in your opinion, the drivers took the biggest hit and gained the least / lost the most - is that right? So, now that it looks that drivers will do alright out of this agreement ( certainly better than deliveries ) does that make it ok to think "I'm alright, Jack"?

Yes the Drivers did take the biggest hit - we lost possibly as much as £20 a week driving allowances & in some cases even more - the PHG's never lost nothing, they retained their £20 a wk + lump sum ??? Now it seems they have finally got it right where the wages are concerned, its the driver thats higher qualified & need to be better paid. Basically the drivers subsidised the deliveries pay rise.

[Destroyer]

& no it's not OK to have an 'its alright Jack **** everybody else' sadly this is the attitude that has ruined & is ruining a good job & the union as a whole. The rot starts at the top, believe me.

[smokerjim]

Its a done deal then... I mean all these above who don't currently get D2D money are laughing. 6.5% over 3 years + £1500 and maybe some other bonus that you are not mentioning yet... and an extra £30 per week. They won't even bother reading anything else... oh and working 2 hours less... god it will be "where do I sign"!

I remember when the Way Forward Agreement was voted in & the biggest losers were the Drivers - i cant remember the PHG's or Delivery boys voting as a 'Union' then ?? In fact i am still to meet anyone that will openly admit to voting for The Way Forward ?? It sounds a fair deal to me.

Can I just clarify your post? With the Way Forward ( before my time admittedly ), in your opinion, the drivers took the biggest hit and gained the least / lost the most - is that right? So, now that it looks that drivers will do alright out of this agreement ( certainly better than deliveries ) does that make it ok to think "I'm alright, Jack"?

Yes the Drivers did take the biggest hit - we lost possibly as much as £20 a week driving allowances & in some cases even more - the PHG's never lost nothing, they retained their £20 a wk + lump sum ??? Now it seems they have finally got it right where the wages are concerned, its the driver thats higher qualified & need to be better paid. Basically the drivers subsidised the deliveries pay rise.

Are you talking about DO drivers or network drivers.....cos Network have their own pay negotiations and deals seperate from deliveries IIRC, also I am a DO driver - I do not have a driving duty, as I am a reserve, but I am assessed to drive a crew bus, I am trained on 4 rural van duties, and my current duty is a hybrid with mail delivery ( walk ) in the morning & packet delivery in the afternoon ( van ).....if DO drivers should get a driving alloowance, should I not be elligible too?

( Long ramble I know - in short, do you mean DO or Netwrok drivers? )

[smokerjim]

& no it's not OK to have an 'its alright Jack **** everybody else' sadly this is the attitude that has ruined & is ruining a good job & the union as a whole. The rot starts at the top, believe me.

The only way to build a strong attitude is to have a solid foundation...and solid foundations start from the bottom! Anything else leaves Tolson, Higson & Mandelson laughing all the way to the bank.

[Destroyer]

Personally myself i speak on behalf of the Network drivers, however our wages have only improved in the last 2 years - we are now finally earning the same as we were before the Way Forward came in. As for the 'Alright Jack' attitude, you wouldnt credit the bullshite & drivvel i have listened to from some certain reps recently - according to them now all national agreement are "in my opinion" ???

For years weve had to abide to the Way Forward & all other National Agreements, but now its the CWU reps 'opinion' ??

Believe me, in 2003 i was one of those that saved Dave Ward & his compatriots bacon, now i'm walking round with a knife in my back.

[Martin Walsh]

Royal Mail made another improved offer yesterday. We are not there yet but within touching distance.

Divisonal Reps and regional secretaries have been called to a meeting at Headqauters Wednesday afternoon.

[smokerjim]

Cheers for the clarification Destroyer - tbh, I can't think of anything more coherent to say, as I don't know enough about the Netwrok situation, and I can't believe you've had the rug pulled out from under you ( although I can credit it )

Dingo - if we are within "touching distance" of a full & final agreement, do you think the PEC & leadership will be confident of a Yes vote....or will they be "touching cloth" at the possibility of a No vote?

[spilie]

is that touching distance as we understand it e.g fingers length, or as i suspect giraffes neck distance

[DGP1]

is that touching distance as we understand it e.g fingers length, or as i suspect giraffes neck distance

Touching distance

We're gonna need some

[spilie]

IPS i dont see how ft/ft in a van works because in our office f/t staff are ready well before p/t staff and if that was carried forward to van deliveries then 2 f/t staff would have more time to complete than say f/t p/t, and your right the only difference is indoor work and they finish that well within thier time so you must have people on delivery well before others

[Martin Walsh]

The CWU National officers will only put a deal to the Postal Executive if they believe the deal is a good one.

The Postal Executive will only agree it if they believe it is a fair especially as we are two months away from the Postal Executive elections.

Branch `s will only recommend a deal if they believe it is a fair deal.

The majority of members will in the main vote on the Branch recommendation or national recommendations. I know a lot of members will refute that but I have seen the breakdown on most of the big agreements in the past and that is fact. Of course some members will make up their own decision regardless of the recommendation be that from reading the agreement or this site.

Of course some groups of activists workers liberty , SWP and a few other groups will campaign against any deal.

The big unknown question is whether a big campaign of Branch`s against the agreement takes place or not.

But of course we dont have a deal as yet ! and no one can make an informed decison until you have read all the words and the rationale for any agreement.

[fishtank]

IPS thank you for the information.
It is good to finaly get some info that comes from real experience instead of conjecture,guesswork and "how it should work".
I have to say though i am more worried than ever about park&loop.
It would seem to create unfair workloads and encourage bullying and harrassment.

[floydy]

Here is the latest agreement, (as dingo and lovejoy wish not share this info, i believe all members have a right to know) this could and most probably will change slightly.

1) D2d's into workload with no cap on how many sets
2)£30 a week pay rise for delivery staff (due to D2d's)including any allowances you already get.
3) £500 in April
4) £1000 when revision is complete
5) No delivery span, could be 3 or 4 or 5 hours this will come down to local agreement.
6) there will be a menu of delivery patterns which will be agreed locally.
7) 3 year pay deal
1st year 1.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
2nd year 1.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
3rd year 3.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
in toal 6.5% pay deal over 3 years and a total 2hrs less on a working week.

8)50% of mail centres to shut and 50% of rdc to shut a total of 12,000 job losses.
9) Saturdays to be a normal working day is still to be agreed but will be sorted out locally in your office revision.

I believe this to be as it was as of Friday, any other updates will be confirmed as of when i get them.
The ballot remains live. if this is not excepted by members then cwu will ask yo to go back on the gate.
regards

Dingo is it close to this, and has the collegueshare been ditched?