UPDATE FROM HQ

[Martin Walsh]

Plus like I have said before look at your normal traffic figures for a saturday now and you will see that it is not much different than a Wednesday , Thursday or Friday and yet most offices complete it in less hours.

We finish earlier on a Saturday because we still have night shifts on Friday night. If Saturday is to be like the rest of the week then those night shifts will go and we WILL be finishing much later.

With walk sequencing and one outward pass per mail centre there wont be any work to be done on nights unless your an inward vouching office.

[Big Daz]

We finish earlier on a Saturday due to no M3, I got to work at 6.45 am yesterday and IPS was all done. Thats 35 mins on a 7 hour day with no M3.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank like I said I will wait to make my judgement what I do challenge is this

If walk sequencing is introduced the only way to stop later saturdays happening is if you stop them being used on a saturday. At the moment Royal Mail are refusing to do so in any case you would have to have a load more hours in the office on a saturday if they did decide to stop the machines on a saturday. Most M3 products have been lost due to downstream access.

The other is if you are going to lose hours on the indoor element both IPS and Prep then how else can you protect full time jobs ? You either lenghten the span and do door to door within workload or you agree that most jobs are part time instead of a commitment that 75% of jobs have to be full time.

I am happy as anyone knows me to fight the employer but until we understand the above two points then what are we fighting for ??????????

[Big Daz]

Dingos point about door to door is valid, unless there is demand to use RML then we wont be delivering any more. In effect what is trying to be achived is a enabling agreemnet to allow RM to win more work which in turn means jobs , job security and more income for RML which the CWU have a duty to ensure that part of that income is put into wages.

When I opened up the local paper this week, three different leaflets were in it. Thats work that RML could have, the question is can those sending out the leaflets be persuaded to switch to RML?

[Stormproof]

Dingo are you a walking postie and do you work Saturdays?

[2old4this]

Dingo are you a walking postie and do you work Saturdays?

I dont think he is. If they want us to work harder and longer, then I think they should walk a mile in my shoe's first.

[fishtank]

Fishtank like I said I will wait to make my judgement what I do challenge is this

If walk sequencing is introduced the only way to stop later saturdays happening is if you stop them being used on a saturday. At the moment Royal Mail are refusing to do so in any case you would have to have a load more hours in the office on a saturday if they did decide to stop the machines on a saturday. Most M3 products have been lost due to downstream access.

The other is if you are going to lose hours on the indoor element both IPS and Prep then how else can you protect full time jobs ? You either lenghten the span and do door to door within workload or you agree that most jobs are part time instead of a commitment that 75% of jobs have to be full time.

I am happy as anyone knows me to fight the employer but until we understand the above two points then what are we fighting for ??????????

Your commitment to 75% full time jobs is meaningless to me dingo,Our D.O sits at 50% and having spoken with management this will not be increased.So.
Does that mean we do not need D2D in workload or longer delivery spans?......................
No because management have already moved ahead with the planning of longer deliveries.
Now we already have WSM on a saturday does that mean we can keep our early saturday finish?....................
No because management have already moved ahead with the planning of longer and later saturdays.
Can we opt out of these parts of the agreement?...No i didn't think so.

Longer delivery spans and increased D2D will make this job unbearable for a large number of members.
That is a worsening of members terms and conditions and that in my opinion is worth fighting for.

[fishtank]

Dingos point about door to door is valid, unless there is demand to use RML then we wont be delivering any more. In effect what is trying to be achived is a enabling agreemnet to allow RM to win more work which in turn means jobs , job security and more income for RML which the CWU have a duty to ensure that part of that income is put into wages.

When I opened up the local paper this week, three different leaflets were in it. Thats work that RML could have, the question is can those sending out the leaflets be persuaded to switch to RML?

This is not a valid point Daz.
Most unaddressed items require a commitment to deliver on a regular basis weekly,fortnightly or monthly.
Due to pre-existing contracts and the cap on D2D RM has never been able to enter this market.
With the cap lifted RM will be able to bid for long term regular D2D items like supermarket leaflets.
You will also see regular mailsort items switching to D2D.
It will not take RM long to "grow" what is effectively the budget end of the mail market at a time when all advertisers are looking to tighten their belts.
After all if RM didn't think they could make money from it you woudn't be getting a supplement.

[cantbelieveit's...]

Here is the latest agreement, (as dingo and lovejoy wish not share this info, i believe all members have a right to know) this could and most probably will change slightly.

1) D2d's into workload with no cap on how many sets
2)£30 a week pay rise for delivery staff (due to D2d's)including any allowances you already get.
3) £500 in April
4) £1000 when revision is complete
5) No delivery span, could be 3 or 4 or 5 hours this will come down to local agreement.
6) there will be a menu of delivery patterns which will be agreed locally.
7) 3 year pay deal
1st year 1.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
2nd year 1.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
3rd year 3.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
in toal 6.5% pay deal over 3 years and a total 2hrs less on a working week.

8)50% of mail centres to shut and 50% of rdc to shut a total of 12,000 job losses.
9) Saturdays to be a normal working day is still to be agreed but will be sorted out locally in your office revision.

I believe this to be as it was as of Friday, any other updates will be confirmed as of when i get them.
The ballot remains live. if this is not excepted by members then cwu will ask yo to go back on the gate.
regards

Close but you left out two other lump sums and got a few other things wrong including the pay rises and the shorter working week.

So if we are going out on strike again ? Then what are we going on strike for ? To smash up walk sequencing so it dont run 6 days per week. Plus like I have said before look at your normal traffic figures for a saturday now and you will see that it is not much different than a Wednesday , Thursday or Friday and yet most offices complete it in less hours.

Plus do you really believe that as soon as the cap is lifted we will suddenly see every office getting more than 3 items pers week , this will only be achieved if the product is re launched
and can you imagine any other company or trade union saying we dont want any more work , we will be happy to loss thousands of jobs as long as you dont increase the cap on door to door.

Yes there will be hard choices to make , and of course we would love to say that reject the deal and Royal Mail will stop their work plan changes and the automation but you know thats wishful thinking.

What are the other 2 lump sums Dingo?? The secrets out Dingo you might as well spill the beans.
All this i know but i ain't telling is bullshit, Everyone has a right to know.
Within the week it will be out anyway.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank like I said I will wait to make my judgement what I do challenge is this

If walk sequencing is introduced the only way to stop later saturdays happening is if you stop them being used on a saturday. At the moment Royal Mail are refusing to do so in any case you would have to have a load more hours in the office on a saturday if they did decide to stop the machines on a saturday. Most M3 products have been lost due to downstream access.

The other is if you are going to lose hours on the indoor element both IPS and Prep then how else can you protect full time jobs ? You either lenghten the span and do door to door within workload or you agree that most jobs are part time instead of a commitment that 75% of jobs have to be full time.

I am happy as anyone knows me to fight the employer but until we understand the above two points then what are we fighting for ??????????

Your commitment to 75% full time jobs is meaningless to me dingo,Our D.O sits at 50% and having spoken with management this will not be increased.So.
Does that mean we do not need D2D in workload or longer delivery spans?......................
No because management have already moved ahead with the planning of longer deliveries.

For the record I dont do deliveries anymore but I do work Saturdays and do work on sundays especially during the AGM season.

Fishtank I cant believe you asked a manager and he told you no more full time jobs and you believed him. For god sake wait till the words on the national agreement come out before spreading doom and gloom. ACAS will oversee the introduction of the agreement and no manager or managers will have a veto on what is agreed. Remember when walk sequencing is introduced it will mean more pressure on full time jobs thats why the achievement of a committment of 75% full time jobs is important especially as we have less than that now.

Now let me explain the new work so you can understand the problems the union has !

All outward mail in a mail centre will no longer be broken down in the old divisions instead it will be shipped out to the recieving mail centre for them to break the work down.

This means mail centres will be able to concentrate on advancing the inward .

Approximately 60% of work will be walk sequencing between Midnight and 0600 in the morning .

The remaining 40% of the work which normally forms your IPS will no longer come into your delivery office in the morning. Instead it will be walk seqeunced. The way the machine does it is that approximately 12 walks are done at a time (batch ) , they have to be processed 3 times on the machine and then that can be dispatched to your office and you then have 100% of your machineable work in your office. The only other work to be IPS will be packets and flats.

Due to each batch having to have 3 passes then not every walk will have 100% of work at the same time and depending where your walk or office is in the queue then you could have your second 40% of work as late as 10 in the morning you still need to prep this but it will be sequenced .

These machines will work six days per week including Saturdays and hence the problem. Not every walk or office will work as late as 3 on a saturday and lots of offices will finish earlier but some walks that are at the back of the machine time slots will work later. Thats why the union has secured a committment to everyone on deliveries working less Saturdays than now.

Everyone in the union recognises that later Saturdays is possibly a deal breaker and thats why the negotiations have taken so long and still have not been agreed. However Royal Mail`s position is that they have spent over 1 billion pounds of government money on walk sequencing and if they dont use it on a Saturday then their business case will fail and will mean that every office will have a duty set monday to friday which would be needed to massively increased on a Saturday due to the walk sequencing machines not being used. So you see we are in a mexican stand off position.

[2old4this]

One giant step forward for the machine's, one giant step backward's for us the worker's.

[kh]

come on dingo whats the deal

[fishtank]

[quote="dingo"][quote="fishtank"][quote="dingo"]


Your commitment to 75% full time jobs is meaningless to me dingo,Our D.O sits at 50% and having spoken with management this will not be increased.So.
Does that mean we do not need D2D in workload or longer delivery spans?......................
No because management have already moved ahead with the planning of longer deliveries.

For the record I dont do deliveries anymore but I do work Saturdays and do work on sundays especially during the AGM season.

Fishtank I cant believe you asked a manager and he told you no more full time jobs and you believed him. For god sake wait till the words on the national agreement come out before spreading doom and gloom. ]


I didn't say i asked a manager dingo,i said i had spoken with management.Enough of them and high enough up to realise they have no intention of increasing the hours in the office by making up part-timers.
If anything the opposite,at a senior management meeting last week it was discussed where the next round of savings was coming from and the consensus was that P/T staff working more than contracted hours should be returned ASAP to their basic contracted hours.
And dingo please don't quote my posts and tag that tired "this is what WSM means to you" lecture onto it.
I know exactly what it means i see it every workday.

[floydy]

Here is the latest agreement, (as dingo and lovejoy wish not share this info, i believe all members have a right to know) this could and most probably will change slightly.

1) D2d's into workload with no cap on how many sets
2)£30 a week pay rise for delivery staff (due to D2d's)including any allowances you already get.
3) £500 in April
4) £1000 when revision is complete
5) No delivery span, could be 3 or 4 or 5 hours this will come down to local agreement.
6) there will be a menu of delivery patterns which will be agreed locally.
7) 3 year pay deal
1st year 1.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
2nd year 1.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
3rd year 3.5% and 40 minute shorter working week
in toal 6.5% pay deal over 3 years and a total 2hrs less on a working week.

8)50% of mail centres to shut and 50% of rdc to shut a total of 12,000 job losses.
9) Saturdays to be a normal working day is still to be agreed but will be sorted out locally in your office revision.

I believe this to be as it was as of Friday, any other updates will be confirmed as of when i get them.
The ballot remains live. if this is not excepted by members then cwu will ask yo to go back on the gate.
regards

I think your pretty close but reading dingo some more sweeteners in there somewhere...

d2d into workload then i dont care how many i get cos i can only work my scheduled hours i COULD end up doing less outdoor work

unless you get stiffed with a 5 hr walk i think that'll get a yes vote

[peterloo]

We also get finished earlier on saturday because a lot of firms are shut no mailsort and a lot of offices do not open canteens on a saturday