UPDATE FROM HQ

[SWIM]

Who is who or what does not matter here evrything discused on this thread means nothing cause if HQ leak its to bolster their beliefs, if not it makes NO difference cause we can all spin a story FFS. Yes dingo is posting and believes what he says but after meeting Ward i aint suprised cause HQ have us banged to rights on the Psychology front they do it all the time at conference! Been to a few of those Union conferences as well and the f***ers would have most eating from their hands and sucking on their tits for some milk that will never come! This whole thing comes down to ONE thing is it good for you and yours? Take every thing else with a pinch of salt! READ ALL THE SMALL PRINT as many did not in 2007 and if you find it wanting VOTE NO and make the lazy f*ckers at HQ do what we pay em for and that is REPRESENTATION NOT DICTATION from them and RM! Many members FAILED IN 2007 and we all PAY NOW! Do you want your life worse or better? The f*cking choice is yours but please spair the bleating cause 2007 was voted in because many members eat sh*t if covered in enough sugar and HQ and RM covered it in it then and will do so again The choice is YOURS! but we do have another choice and that is NO.

preaching to the converted.

[Pat Ostman]

Who is who or what does not matter here evrything discused on this thread means nothing cause if HQ leak its to bolster their beliefs, if not it makes NO difference cause we can all spin a story FFS. Yes dingo is posting and believes what he says but after meeting Ward i aint suprised cause HQ have us banged to rights on the Psychology front they do it all the time at conference! Been to a few of those Union conferences as well and the f***ers would have most eating from their hands and sucking on their tits for some milk that will never come! This whole thing comes down to ONE thing is it good for you and yours? Take every thing else with a pinch of salt! READ ALL THE SMALL PRINT as many did not in 2007 and if you find it wanting VOTE NO and make the lazy f*ckers at HQ do what we pay em for and that is REPRESENTATION NOT DICTATION from them and RM! Many members FAILED IN 2007 and we all PAY NOW! Do you want your life worse or better? The f*cking choice is yours but please spair the bleating cause 2007 was voted in because many members eat sh*t if covered in enough sugar and HQ and RM covered it in it then and will do so again The choice is YOURS! but we do have another choice and that is NO.

preaching to the converted.

If your converted? Then it aint aimed at you is it so your point is what, if i have missed something or you feel i am wrong about something then please let me know.

I think he agreed with you

[snoopywonderdog]

Regarding longer delivery spans, As Pegasus works on the assumption that you only deliver to 80% of your delivery, if we have to put a D2D each day that means we will be delivering 100% each day. So surely its a 20% reduction in size of delivery, or 20% increase in time to complete it .

[Martin Walsh]

For the record I am not for or against the agreement , as there is not one but I do believe we are close to an agreed postion , but for the agreement to fly we also need to obtain an agreement with the Government on pensions. Before anyone quotes that pensions is not part of this agreement , well get in the real world , Royal Mail , the government and even the pension trustees are not revealing the new defcit which has been know for 2 months now. Why ? well once they do they have to legally agree with the trustees how they are going to repay that huge amount. If it is based on the same formula as now then Royal Mail will have to pay a billion pounds per year back to fund the defcit which will simply grow again. No company can survive without some relaxation on this issue.

The second thing is my information is not from a cleaner , anyone who knows how the union works will understand that Headquaters know who are the power in the union and they keep them abreast of the situration , so there are lots of people who know a degree of whats happening , most dont choose to share the infomation with this site as some of the posters would not be happy if you gave them the euro millions.

Whether when their is an agreement it is accepted or rejected wont be won on the basis of this site. It will be won or lost at Branch meetings and a campaign from a number of Branch`s that the reality. This site allows for a debate but lets be honest the local disputes which forced the national union to ballot was not as a result of this site if was down to people who had the bottle to say they were no longer prepared to accept Royal Mail introducing change without agreement and breaking national agreements and destroying the union.

In addition a lot of rubbish has been posted the talks have moved on, currently whats on offer is a supplement , 4 lump sums , a shorter working week and 3 pay rises. In total over 22.7% , more for some members .

The Union believes it can get better thats why the talks are on going.

Of course the industry is changing we would not have had the bloody strikes last year if we thought every thing was staying the same and we wouldt see the posts day in day out of Royal Mail introducing walk sequencing , delviery methods , longer spans , absorbtion because their is time within your duty time to do so.

I live in the bloody real world where compainies are cutting wages including TNT , builders are taking cuts in order to survive as well a whole load of companies. Face the real world Royal Mail due to the pension defcit , the unfiar compeition , the cost of the final mile and decades of mis mangement is in real trobule , they are going to introdcue some of this change with or without an agreement as they have brought the machines and the vans. Plus the one growth in the mail market unaddressed items (door 2door ) we have people saying well I would rather contiue to do door to door as now when I might not when walk sequencing comes in not have enough work to mantian a full time job.

Lets also understand the issue not everyone in a delivery unit does door to door and not everyone does 3 items and you dont get a payment for door to door when your on sick leave or annual leave.

The choice people need to make on door to door is not one of lets contiue to do them as now , its whether you put them into workload and then they protect your hours whilst you continue to recieve a 52 week supplement or you allow Royal Mail to recuit an alternative workforce who does door to door items as the quality across the country for door to door poor.

See its easy sitting behind a keyboard arguing for the status quo but that has ship has long left the harbour.

[floydy]

Face the real world Royal Mail due to the pension defcit , the unfiar compeition , the cost of the final mile and decades of mis mangement is in real trobule



and this is what sticks in most peoples craw....non of it caused by the workers yet we face the lies and consequences every day

[mr hil.]

Thanks for the Update Dingo....I always await your posts as well as a few other reliable sources and when I add them together and read between the lines the truth or somewhere near it always becomes apparent.

We are all fed up waiting and nerves are frayed...just what will any benefits be and how much pain will be involved in any changes will soon become clear, when a Final Offer is finally revealed and the membership get to vote then I am sure you enlightening posts will show just how close to source you really are

Thanks again

[fishtank]

dingo wrote
Whether when their is an agreement it is accepted or rejected wont be won on the basis of this site. It will be won or lost at Branch meetings and a campaign from a number of Branch`s that the reality.

Surely whether an agreement is accepted or rejected will be down to individual members deciding whether the agreement meets THEIR aspirations.
Not bully boy tactics either on this site or at branch meetings.
I did think this was a democratic union but i'm beginning to wonder.

[red72]

Quote from Dingo,
anyone who knows how the union works will understand that Headquaters know who are the power in the union and they keep them abreast of the situration

I thought we were the strength in the union ? We haven't been kept abreast of anything really apart from the usual ' Talks are ongoing , we're working really hard , blah blah blah.
Remember the old 'Unity is strength' quote , Are we the strength or not ,? or is that trawled out when you need a ' yes ' vote ? We should be kept updated on what has been agreed and what has still to be discussed on a regular basis, that way we could digest the agreed items over a period of time (whilst the talks continue over what is left to be sorted) rather than getting everything in one lump (or a 50 page document) and trying to take it all in a short period of time.

[SWIM]

Who is who or what does not matter here evrything discused on this thread means nothing cause if HQ leak its to bolster their beliefs, if not it makes NO difference cause we can all spin a story FFS. Yes dingo is posting and believes what he says but after meeting Ward i aint suprised cause HQ have us banged to rights on the Psychology front they do it all the time at conference! Been to a few of those Union conferences as well and the f***ers would have most eating from their hands and sucking on their tits for some milk that will never come! This whole thing comes down to ONE thing is it good for you and yours? Take every thing else with a pinch of salt! READ ALL THE SMALL PRINT as many did not in 2007 and if you find it wanting VOTE NO and make the lazy f*ckers at HQ do what we pay em for and that is REPRESENTATION NOT DICTATION from them and RM! Many members FAILED IN 2007 and we all PAY NOW! Do you want your life worse or better? The f*cking choice is yours but please spair the bleating cause 2007 was voted in because many members eat sh*t if covered in enough sugar and HQ and RM covered it in it then and will do so again The choice is YOURS! but we do have another choice and that is NO.

preaching to the converted.

If your converted? Then it aint aimed at you is it so your point is what, if i have missed something or you feel i am wrong about something then please let me know.

I wasn't having a go.
Most people on here will see past the £ signs,that was my point.

[dvbuk55]

Quote from Dingo,
anyone who knows how the union works will understand that Headquaters know who are the power in the union and they keep them abreast of the situration

I thought we were the strength in the union ? We haven't been kept abreast of anything really apart from the usual ' Talks are ongoing , we're working really hard , blah blah blah.
Remember the old 'Unity is strength' quote , Are we the strength or not ,? or is that trawled out when you need a ' yes ' vote ? We should be kept updated on what has been agreed and what has still to be discussed on a regular basis, that way we could digest the agreed items over a period of time (whilst the talks continue over what is left to be sorted) rather than getting everything in one lump (or a 50 page document) and trying to take it all in a short period of time.

Yes it must be a great honour always to be kept abreast of the situation and being a power in the union, toeing the line and feeding the information to the masses as instructed.

What an arrogance to assume that the "powers in the union" are going to sway the vote on this one - there is something in the order of 90K delivery staff and this "modernisation" and it's success is largely based on the sweat from their brow and back, not the "powers in the union".

There is no doubt going to be a great trumpeting of success - well there'd better be some substance to that or it will be good night Vienna.

[pickaname]

Regarding longer delivery spans, As Pegasus works on the assumption that you only deliver to 80% of your delivery, if we have to put a D2D each day that means we will be delivering 100% each day. So surely its a 20% reduction in size of delivery, or 20% increase in time to complete it .

Not necessarily.

A minimum of 20% of D2Ds are required to be delivered each day.

[Big Daz]

Pegasus can work on any call rate, its different rates all over the country some reasonable some just plain daft!!

88% in my D.O

I would hope that the proposals that seem to be on the verge of being finalised will finally see some commonsense put into call rates.

[2old4this]

Just out of interest, what happens if the union put this deal to us for ballot and we turn it down, ?

[Big Daz]

More talks and a reballot with the changes/improvements highlighted in red as per the 2nd version of the Way Forwrad agreement.

[2old4this]

More talks and a reballot with the changes/improvements highlighted in red as per the 2nd version of the Way Forwrad agreement.

AT the last meeting we had with a rep he told we would have to do longer walk's..........I don't think he liked it when someone asked him if he could do our walk's now. let alone even longer one's. I'm 53 with 32 yrs on deliveries. I don't know if the union is aware of the fact that by the time I've done my walk I'm f**ked now. even more will bloody well kill me.