National Negotiations – Extended into next week,and the next

[fishtank]

pjthebear wrote:
"do we want a industry with fulltime jobs or part time?"

I've listened to this CWU mantra every time a deal is in the "offing".
The problem comes between deals when absolutely feck all is done when full-time jobs are replaced by part-time jobs in almost every area of the country.
The only area where this does not happen is London.
That may be because they have difficulty recruiting part-time staff or it may be because they are strong as a division or it may be other reasons,i honestly don't know.
But what i do know is that a statement like "do we want a industry with fulltime jobs or part time?" has little meaning now for the majority of the country.

[shimmyrule]

I don't think the cwu had much choice, Roger poole got both parties to sign a confidentiality agreement.

When the agreement is finally rolled out, the biggest question we need to ask ourselves is " do we want a industry with fulltime jobs or part time?"

Now before all you very opinionated posters begin shouting from the roof tops, lets just get it into our heads that we start at our start times and finish at our finish times - nothing more or nothing less is expected of you ( in my over 20 years experience, it's normally the ones that shout loudest that have the most to lose ).

LETS ALL DO THE JOB PROPERLY AND LOOK AFTER OUR JOBS!!

I shout pretty loud but have little to lose and mostly do my job properly (far better than the failed CWU do your job properly!) and i KNOW THE CWU HAVE HAD A CHOICE! They could do what we as members expect of them and lighten the load, get a pay rise and shorter working hours with a decent pension thrown in that we all pay for and RM and Government dont or go the CWU HQ, RM and Government way and that is we want the cash from the workers and the public to pay for our very nice lifestyles! After Twentey years i am suprised you aint got that? Still there is nothing as strange as folk.

8 month solid ive done the job the way royal mail want to, right to the tee, ive cut off every single day for 8 months, and getting tested next week.

Seems i am a problem, as when on hols, everysingle postie can complete my delivery.
They dont take breaks, take every short cut, read the mail as they go, work from the car, dont do door to door etc.
Tell ya what, if i manage to get 45 mins off my round, i would be able to get round the old way in 2 1/2 hours.
My boss gives my cut on o\t every day, folk claim up to 2 hours for 35 mins work, its no wonder the budget is throo the roof!
Still, im creating work, and having an easy stroll round, whilst "my mates " are out the door at 9-30,in the car and are home for 12-30!

Can imagine all there faces when the boss says we need to save 300 hours lads, and weve identified savings- you pr**s that cant see past the end of their own noses- the savings will never end until every single postman does the job correctly, and realises that job and finish is over- for good.

[crusher]

Can imagine all there faces when the boss says we need to save 300 hours lads, and weve identified savings- you pr**s that cant see past the end of their own noses- the savings will never end until every single postman does the job correctly, and realises that job and finish is over- for good.[/quote]

Somebody on my wavelength at last! ^^^^^^^^ Absolutely cock on statement above.

[wingmanchillian]

pjthebear wrote:
"do we want a industry with fulltime jobs or part time?"

I've listened to this CWU mantra every time a deal is in the "offing".
The problem comes between deals when absolutely feck all is done when full-time jobs are replaced by part-time jobs in almost every area of the country.
The only area where this does not happen is London.
That may be because they have difficulty recruiting part-time staff or it may be because they are strong as a division or it may be other reasons,i honestly don't know.
But what i do know is that a statement like "do we want a industry with fulltime jobs or part time?" has little meaning now for the majority of the country.

That is the most spot on statement regarding the ft/pt discussion i think i've ever read.

we've had so many full timers leave through various reasons, retired, dismissed, just fed up with it etc.. and not a single one has been replaced with another full timer and this has been going on for years now. The only time i've heard it mentioned is around deal time. every time i hear the threat of "do we want a industry with full-time jobs or part time?" it actually turns my stomach.

cant really comment on the London thing but it is notorious for having difficulty hiring PT in all sectors across the board.

[gideon 60]

i saw dave ward at the national briefing and have faith in the man. change is coming weather we like it or not. the cwus done well for its membership over a period of time when other manual work force,s have been slaughtered. 6 weeks paid holiday,up to 6 months sick leave with full pay, contributory pension scheme,paid m/rs,backing from a rep if we make a lash up. these and many other privalidges have been fought and won by our union, not given to us by a caring boss. personally speaking i think its the best 3 pounds you,ll spend, ask some one in a non unionised business what they think of our terms and conditions, they would like some one like dave ward in their corner.

[gideon 60]

and he,s bloody big as well, and scared the s**t out of me

[Big Daz]

aye, he makes me look little

[BIG AL]

I don't think the cwu had much choice, Roger poole got both parties to sign a confidentiality agreement.

When the agreement is finally rolled out, the biggest question we need to ask ourselves is " do we want a industry with fulltime jobs or part time?"

Now before all you very opinionated posters begin shouting from the roof tops, lets just get it into our heads that we start at our start times and finish at our finish times - nothing more or nothing less is expected of you ( in my over 20 years experience, it's normally the ones that shout loudest that have the most to lose ).

LETS ALL DO THE JOB PROPERLY AND LOOK AFTER OUR JOBS!!


8 month solid ive done the job the way royal mail want to, right to the tee, ive cut off every single day for 8 months, and getting tested next week.

Seems i am a problem, as when on hols, everysingle postie can complete my delivery.
They dont take breaks, take every short cut, read the mail as they go, work from the car, dont do door to door etc.
Tell ya what, if i manage to get 45 mins off my round, i would be able to get round the old way in 2 1/2 hours.
My boss gives my cut on o\t every day, folk claim up to 2 hours for 35 mins work, its no wonder the budget is throo the roof!
Still, im creating work, and having an easy stroll round, whilst "my mates " are out the door at 9-30,in the car and are home for 12-30!

Can imagine all there faces when the boss says we need to save 300 hours lads, and weve identified savings- you pr**s that cant see past the end of their own noses- the savings will never end until every single postman does the job correctly, and realises that job and finish is over- for good.

How long have I been saying this[3 years] in our office? and yet nothing has been done about it!
RM don't give a f...k about individuals with problems with their walk.

They want runners who will cut every corner they can [ie everything you have listed above] so they[management] can put the blame on YOU!
Everyone who does the job properly are classed as a 'Problem-to be eradicated from the office'
This is why one of our 'colleagues' has been temp suspended for over 7 months [loose cannon in the office?]

When will all these people wake up and see that they are Killing this job?
As you say what will happen when all of a sudden they find out that extra streets are added to their walks because a Lino has clocked them finishing at 12.30???????


Stand Free.............................

[dvbuk55]

couldn't have put it better myself Linkin!!!

still, as Lovejoy reminded us, we are a minority....

But NOT silent as they would wish us to be.

[crusher]

The biggest axe I have to grind with Dave Ward is surrounding the pension fiasco. I quite vividly remember him standing on the steps of ACAS after the last strikes a couple of years ago stating that they had managed to seperate pensions and the MTSF agreement away from the dispute. What happens 12 months later but Royal Mail carry on with the pension changes and steamroller it in.

The main concern then and the only reason why most of us took IA was because RM were wanting to make changes to the pension scheme as part of the pay deal. Despite the assurances from the CWU and getting us back to work with the action called off it still happened.

[Rommagic]

I thought we would have heard about the agreement today?.

[Big Daz]

What agreement?

We have not been balloted and returned a yes vote yet.

CWU and RML are meeting today with ACAS and Roger the Dodger, what time of day and how long for I do not know, with luck somebody may hear on the grapevine and report back.

If they reach a deal then it will need PEC approval before it will become solid proposals to put to the membership. Dave and his team do not have the authority do anything other than negoatiate and report back and recomemend to the PEC on the proposals. Unless the PEC meet this afternoon/evening then it will be Monday before anything formal comes out.

[dvbuk55]

couldn't have put it better myself Linkin!!!

still, as Lovejoy reminded us, we are a minority....

But NOT silent as they would wish us to be.

You Brother are IWW and as you retire soon and will be unwaged its only a quid a month. JOIN US AND VENT YOUR SPLEEN, you and your chums could do real good if you keep your slightly odd stuff under the covers if you get my drift?

http://iww.org.uk/join" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well linkin I have added that to my favourites and when I do retire I will join. As for keeping things under the covers, well I have to use the old adage "If you've got it flaunt it" though the wife does insist on turning the light off

[dvbuk55]

It may well be worth having a recruitment drive after this agreement sees the light of day linkin. I notice the subs are based on salary which is a subject a colleague and I discussed a while ago for the CWU. Rather than a fixed amount for FT/PT it makes sense to have a structure of that nature paticularly for RM workers who now have such a diverse number of contractual hours.

[rangersboy]

Sometimes some of you need a reality check , you really believe that the cwu wishes to sell you out with every agreement. What a load of bolloxs.

Lets get things straight

Well some of you are argueing that you stay at 3.5 hours , well thats what the union negotaited in 2003 , yet offices have agreed to go passed that 4 hours without the national union agreeing it. The New National agreement will not force you to move past 3.5 hours if that is your wish but have you got the workload under the roof once walk sequencing has been deployed and the new work plan has been intrduced to maximise full time jobs.

Plus some of you criticise Peagsus/ GEO route , when you agreed for it to be used in your office without a fight. We even have a post praising the geo route version 2 . I can understand where offices have had geo route revisons imposed on them but the reason it took the national union so long to reach an agreement on peagsus was because offices and branch"s didt hold the unions line on not agreeing to the use of geo route..

Last Year the union had a national policy not to agree to any revisons until Royal Mail choose to negotate a deal on the i the future. Yet over 300 offices decided to agree savings regardless of that national policy which left other offices to fight for a national agreement.

The Union has a policy of no use of car derived vans unless there is a national agreement , yet only a handful of offices had a strike to stop them , whereas significantly more offices decided to just agree to them.

So you see its all very well blaming CWU HQs for everything but the union does not begin or end at 150 the broadway it exists in everyone of your offices, the union is as strong or as weak as it members. The union reflects that position, we have strong areas and strong offices and weak areas and weak offices.

Often the easy option for some in the union is to blame others for their lack of resistance in their own office. My belief there are many on this site who fall into that bracket. I know when I blame CWU Headquaters I talk the talk because in my office they have not agreed to any of the stuff i am complaining about.

The reasons the talks have moved into the next week is not because the union is going to sell you out. It is the opposite we aint prepared to accept that Saturday turns into a normal day on Royal Mail"s terms and we are not willing to accept whats is currently on offer for door to door into workload. Lets get things straight progress has been made and both mail centres and network have in principle agreements subject to everything being agreed.

Some of you need to understand that no one is out to sell the membership down the river , get real , its all very well everyone saying we dont want this , we dont want that . But tell us the solutions we all know the problems.

So Your going to get walk seqeuncing there are now 70 in the UK , and this will increase at 3 per week being installed until the last ones are introduced in Waltham cross in November 2011 and your work once you have walk seqencing is not going to come into your delivery office at 0600 for IPS pruposes and prep purposes as it does now. Instead it will come in at least 2 hours later and in some cases up to 4 hours later.

The machines are going to run 6 days a week which means you will be getting that work later on Saturdays.

So any ideas you have on how we stop this from happening and how we can limits it impact on jobs and full time posts please feel free to tell the CWU . PS we already tried the luddite option.