DOUBLE STANDARDS

[gj1023]

. The problem to me is percieved racism , the way people are been indoctrinated with this PC rubbish . .

So the problem is percieved racism and not racism itself? Why is it rubbish to be PC? Is it far better to be politically incorrect?
.


I believe CCR you are taking out of context what I wrote earlier , to maybe fit your thinking or logic. What I said earlier I think covers my view on this .

"On the PC bit, blantant racism is obvious to all and not acceptable to any normal minded person as we have moved on from the views of the fifties and sixties etc. The problem to me is percieved racism , the way people are been indoctrinated with this PC rubbish . It seems to make them so sensitive , as if they are looking for racism , where there is none, There has been a few examples in this thread and I think this sad as "freedom of speach" is the bedrock of our society "

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

How many "white " contributors have there been to this thread and how many non?

A great question that no-one seems to want to answer.

What possible relevance has the race of the contributors have?
Isn't one of the best things about Forums, the fact that you have no idea what the contributors look like?

For example: If a racist was listening to an argument from someone of a different ethnic origin. He/she wouldn't pay much attention to them. Or more likley argue against them, even if they have a good point.

If a sexist was listening to a lady arguing an important point. He wouldn't pay much attention, and would go out of his way to belittle her.

If people stated their ethnic origin. Any racists on here, would change their opinion of them, based on that answer, wouldn't they?

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Ok. Here's the problem as I see it. People are being employed to do duties that they aren't qualified to do. So what should be done about it?
There are 2 possible answers IMHO.
1) Teach them to read and speak English properly, before they start work.
2) Only employ people who are qualified to do the duty they apply for.

Like I said earlier. There are plenty of duties in RM, where you don't need more than a very rudimentary understanding of spoken English, and only need to be able to read letters and numbers. So it certianly wouldn't be discrimination to refuse to take on people who can't read/speak English for delivery duties, if they WERE taken on for any vacant duties which don't require those skills, would it!

Give me strength!!!!

[mbavelja]

How many "white " contributors have there been to this thread and how many non?

A great question that no-one seems to want to answer.

What possible relevance has the race of the contributors have?
Isn't one of the best things about Forums, the fact that you have no idea what the contributors look like?

For example: If a racist was listening to an argument from someone of a different ethnic origin. He/she wouldn't pay much attention to them. Or more likley argue against them, even if they have a good point.

If a sexist was listening to a lady arguing an important point. He wouldn't pay much attention, and would go out of his way to belittle her.

If people stated their ethnic origin. Any racists on here, would change their opinion of them, based on that answer, wouldn't they?

The difference is some of us have direct experience of both blatant and underhand racism and some don't.What you have therefore is some people pontificating about a subject of which they do not have a clue.
How many of you have had a manager take one look at your name or hear your accent and go "We've got a f***ing foreigner in here"?
Racism is rarely so blatant (though of course the manager denied he was a racist. He didn't care if people were black or white or pink or blue blah blah blah)

[motherhubbard]

One bloke in our office talks about "our ethnic cousins", Is that racist?
When he thinks I can't hear he talks about nig-nogs and sambos.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

One bloke in our office talks about "our ethnic cousins", Is that racist?

IMHO yes it is because it sounds like its being used as a put down.

Its all to do with context. For instance if my parents were not married when I was born and if someone said "Teebs is a Bastard, his parents were not married" that would be correct , however "Teebs is a Bastard because he deleted one of my posts" is most definitely a put down and therefore in my opinion is entirely wrong.

To point out differences for no other reason than to make themselves feel better, or to draw attention to something the speaker thinks make someone of less value than themselves is wrong. To mention a difference as a descriptive term as long as its not derogatory is acceptable, but why mention the difference in the first place if description is not needed.

[clashcityrocker]

To point out differences for no other reason than to make themselves feel better, or to draw attention to something the speaker thinks make someone of less value than themselves is wrong. To mention a difference as a descriptive term as long as its not derogatory is acceptable, but why mention the difference in the first place if description is not needed.

But TBT surely this is exactly the point I was trying to make right at the start. The original post was about double standards between permanent contract and non permanent contract staff.To start mentioning people with less than perfect English was irrelevant because there are plenty of people who speak perfect English being given an easier ride because of the status of their contract.
But here's another one:
There was a South East Asian bloke taken on over the summer - Xiang Lee. (Really Li but it had been Anglicised by a grandparent. They used to do that sort of thing to try and fit in.)Third generation immigrant - student-smart kid
Comes into work, sees his name Xiang against walk XX/11 and gets on with it. Ten minutes later he gets a call from the Line Manager wanting to know why he wasn't in yet.
Seems the lino had put him down as Xiang to cover XX/11 and Lee to cover XX/23.
Just an honest mistake? Or symptomatic of something else. After all he wouldn't have made that error with a Phillip Johnson or even a Ruaridh O'Dochartaigh.

[Tman]

Surely there's more than enough racism and intolerance to combat without seeing it in a mistake?

"The boy who cried wolf" is the scenario which inevitably damages real cases and situations. Anyway, did Mr Lee feel demeaned in some way by this?

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

Clash, I may have misunderstood the post (but I doubt it). But wasn't it about the fact that RM are taking people on, on short term, or temporary contracts, who aren't qualified to do it properly?
k979aaa said "those who would not normally be given duties while incapable are performing these duties even though not capable". And then went on to give an example.

Now don't get me wrong. I know that although it's not common, there are some people who struggle to read English, even when it's their first language. But I've yet to come across anyone like that being taken on at RM. Let alone, put on deliveries. But that doesn't mean that it can't happen. Whether someone can't read because they're illiterate, or because they don't understand English, is irrelevant. If they can't read well enough to do the job. Then they're not qualified, and should never have been taken on for that duty.

If RM feel compelled to give these duties to people who can't read. Then what exactly is stopping them from giving training?
You don't need an English O Level to read addresses. Just the basics are sufficient. Particularly as someone who's struggling because of the language barrier, probably has more than adequate literary skills already. They just need to learn basic English.


mbavelja, although I haven't been on the recieving end of racism. I have seen it happen to my friends, in the past. And suffered the abuse that comes from sticking up for them (Paki lover, Race Traitor, etc.). Not that the words bothered me. It was the venom behind them, and (on more than one occasion) getting my arse kicked. And I personally, have been bullied because of my disability. If that's any help, in understanding my views.

But I still think it's unwise for anyone to answer the question about their Colour. Because any racists, will know who to try to pick on then. Obviously the Moderators will deal with anyone doing that. But they can't be everywhere at once. And people might read the abuse, before it's removed.

[clashcityrocker]

While at the moment i am not directly involved it has come to my attention that their is double standards in royal mail. The particular case in being is that the staff on permanent contracts be it full time or part time on these contacts are more accountable than those who do not!. WHY ?

The post as I read it is originally about double standards in RM.

[Scarlet Pimpernell]

That's right. They have one set of standards for permanent staff, so they can cull us. And an embarrasingly low set of standards for people that they can get rid of on a whim. They want a disposable workforce, that they can change at little or no notice. If you're permanent, they look for the flimsiest excuse to sack us. The temporary ones, don't even need to be qualified to do the job. Let alone, do it properly.

The example he gave, was extreme. But illustrates the point well, don't you think?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Clash just a quick clarification please as I lived in Hong Kong for 3 years and can see how the problem occurred.

You say that Xiang Lee is his name and that it had been Anglicised when his family came over. The problem being that traditionally in Chinese culture the family name is usually shown first.

This would make some sense as Xiang is a dialect within China and this could have been adopted as a family name, but to add to the confusion this is traditionally a individuals name. Just live the 2004 Olympic Gold medallist and World Champion in 110m hurdles.

However if they have Anglicised it this could mean that Lee is his surname and again this is possible as that is an English sound name. Or Lee could be an Anglicised version of a traditional Chinese name for instance Lieu which is a family name.

You can see how confusing it is for someone that used to deal with Chinese names every day, what's it going to be like for someone who has no experience of it, it would be easy for them to make a mistake.

However, putting the same person on 2 duties as you intimated, is just really bad planning or administration and nothing more than that IMHO.