UPDATE FROM HQ

[spiderman]

If D2D is built into the workload and we end up with an improved weekly wage to compensate this, then how would this be worked out if given to ALL within delivery? When reserves, covers and many other jobs within delivery do not get paid for D2D?

[trythat]

For most offices the spec wont change it will still be 2 oclock. Do you know less than 8% of staff are still delivering letters at 2 now according to all the panellists on which the quality statistics are worked on.

Some offices will be later as a result of walk sequencing and in some offices it could be a finishing time as late as 3 but as is the normal that will include return to office and a meal relief at the end.

TBH dingo, the reason only 8% are still delivering is, that we are supposed to finish at 1400. I'm 1 of the few in my office who take a 20 minute break when out on duty (most don't take a break, not from the lack of trying to get people to take a break), so I try and get back for 1330 (the rest of my break 20 minutes, and 10 minutes to park my van, 739's, clean up etc).

So I would really like the CWU to dispeal this rumour, that we are all skiving, we're not, if you're due to finish at 1400, then, there is no way you should be delivering at 1400.

There are a number of ways where less saturdays can be introduced. Fishtank if your office is tight on Saturdays now then maybe more hours on a Saturday will be the answer.

We've tried to get Saturday hours put in, either by SA or by employing just Saturday people, which I think would work, some people wouldn't mind just working Saturdays. But to no avail, so we have failures of deliveries and pkts on a Saturday.

[Badwolf]

Only one thing for it lets rally the troops for a massive no vote

How can we have a NO VOTE on something we still don't really know. Just wait and see, you never know

[dvbuk55]

and the reserves get screwed again because we don't get Saturdays off for 'operational' reasons ie. face don't fit

Wrong again reserves will be entitled to the same benefits. In fact they are now. If you are not being treated fairly now its nothing to do with CWU HQ or any agreement it is either down to your DOM or the local rep. You need to appoach them. Reserves in most London offices enjoy the same time off beneits as anyone else otherwise it is not fair.

I am very interested in this approach to management that is going to produce a 50% reduction in Saturday working - it comes as no surprise that reserves in London offices enjoy the same benefits - and that really is your problem dingo - you don't see any further afield than London - London are strong, London get this, London do that - YES we know they do - but it doesn't happen like that across the country.

Lets just for arguments sake say you have a moderate Rep with an office that has a marginal majority of union members - and the manager says NO to the proposals you are suggesting - what do you suggest should be the next move - go to disagreement? Yes Yes we have had all that and nothing changes - so you see some places are less enamoured of the "local agreement" scheme than you are. Your suggestion of some will be winners and some will be losers is really a case of "I'm alright Jack".

[citypostie]

the reason we can deliver more on a sat than a tue is because we run round like mad men too get finished at a decent time so we have some weekend left to enjoy, i.e going on football match. With how busy it is on a sat now you dont gain much over a week day.

A man after my own heart. But just because your finish time will be later on paper will that stop you rushing around in order to finish early ?? Bearing in mind the only difference will be that some walks will recieve their work later on Saturday but the latest would be 10

Plus you will also be able to introduce an attendance pattern which gives you maybe one in three Saturdays off instead of one in six so you may work 50% less saturdays then you do now.

So if the mail doesn't arrive until 10 after prepping and tieing up you will be looking at a 11 - 11.30 escape from the office and starting delivery at about 11.45! there is now way I would vote for any deal that included this sort of working on a saturday even if a huge pay rise was on the cards - which it won't be even with the possibility of more saturdays off - I don't want to work later on any saturdays. With regard to D2D surely the only people who should get any vote on a deal that changes how we are paid for these are delivery people - and any payment should only be for these people not for mail centre staff, callers office etc., any payment would have to be pro rata to the number of calls in each delivery, how would it be fair for somone with 800 calls to get the same as somone with 500?

[Big Daz]

It isnt fair, but as yet the exact detail is unknown on how we be paid. All you can do is wait and have faith.

All we can do is debate alternatives to the pence per item system and debate the pros and cons of moving away from a pence per item system.

Dave and co in theory will have thought of all the possible concerns that members will have and be trying to get something the average member will look at and say yep thats ok, I like the new system.

If door to door were being introduced now for the very first time, how would we go about it and what payment system would we want. Describe the ideal door to door scenario.

[Glenno]

Dont get any bloody Saturdays off due to Local agreement when SDD came in Static day off
Have tried many times in the last 6 years to reverse this to rolling day off no frigging joy thou

with regards to D2D i await to see HOW much we are paid x 52 weks before comment

[Big Daz]

Rolling day off is a considered a big evil in my D.O been to a vote with the issue returned a large majority in favour of static day off.

Unlikely to be proposed by local mangement again, very contentious issue.

[fishtank]

Rolling day off is a considered a big evil in my D.O been to a vote with the issue returned a large majority in favour of static day off.

Unlikely to be proposed by local mangement again, very contentious issue.

How do those with a static tuesday feel about this Daz.

[Big Daz]

Rolling day off is a considered a big evil in my D.O been to a vote with the issue returned a large majority in favour of static day off.

Unlikely to be proposed by local mangement again, very contentious issue.

How do those with a static tuesday feel about this Daz.

They picked Tuesday off duties of their own free will despite duties with other days off being available.

A saturday off floater duty went more than half way down the seniority list before being picked caused a few grumbles from those higher up but they had the chance to ditch their duties or pick this saturday off duty but chose not to. The main grumble was over who picked it as they were not a member and went into work in 2007.


Look the previous DOM proposed rolling days off, I put it to a vote of the members and they voted to keep fixed day off. Any other suggestions Im allways open to!!

How about I dictate to the members that rolling day off is best for them? Trust me if i did that I would be hung drawn and quartered.

[dvbuk55]

Rolling day off is a considered a big evil in my D.O been to a vote with the issue returned a large majority in favour of static day off.

Unlikely to be proposed by local mangement again, very contentious issue.

How do those with a static tuesday feel about this Daz.

They picked Tuesday off duties of their own free will despite duties with other days off being available.

A saturday off floater duty went more than half way down the seniority list before being picked caused a few grumbles from those higher up but they had the chance to ditch their duties or pick this saturday off duty but chose not to. The main grumble was over who picked it as they were not a member and went into work in 2007.


Look the previous DOM proposed rolling days off, I put it to a vote of the members and they voted to keep fixed day off. Any other suggestions Im allways open to!!

How about I dictate to the members that rolling day off is best for them? Trust me if i did that I would be hung drawn and quartered.

Yes! Just as a matter of interest BD what's your day off? How would you manage a 4 day week with a static day off? How would anyone get more Saturdays off when they already get every Saturday off?

[MinisterofCucumber]

Nice one Wranglered, you seem to have rattled Dingo's cage.

Dingo said, "If you are not being treated fairly now its nothing to do with CWU HQ or any agreement it is either down to your DOM or the local rep."

So this local agreement crap means the union can pass the buck and there is no accountability.

Does anyone trust Dingo, or Squealer, or whatever his name is?

[Danelectro]

the reason we can deliver more on a sat than a tue is because we run round like mad men too get finished at a decent time so we have some weekend left to enjoy, i.e going on football match. With how busy it is on a sat now you dont gain much over a week day.

A man after my own heart. But just because your finish time will be later on paper will that stop you rushing around in order to finish early ?? Bearing in mind the only difference will be that some walks will recieve their work later on Saturday but the latest would be 10

Plus you will also be able to introduce an attendance pattern which gives you maybe one in three Saturdays off instead of one in six so you may work 50% less saturdays then you do now.

and the reserves get screwed again because we don't get Saturdays off for 'operational' reasons ie. face don't fit

Wrong again reserves will be entitled to the same benefits. In fact they are now. If you are not being treated fairly now its nothing to do with CWU HQ or any agreement it is either down to your DOM or the local rep. You need to appoach them. Reserves in most London offices enjoy the same time off beneits as anyone else otherwise it is not fair.

Nothing to do with any agreement? HAVE YOU READ THE 2007 PAY AND MOD? OPERATIONAL reasons can be used as an excuse for RM to do just about anything.and going back to a previous point you made about HQ sent out a LTB stating not to get involved with any savings revisions etc,our office had a meeting and out of that meeting we asked for more clarification from HQ and where met by silence followed by divisional and area reps talking down ant IA!The CWU is run on the same lines as new f**king labour.even if the new agreement is as bloody wonderful as you say it only took 11 months after the last one for crozier and co to move the goal posts.The bottom line is is it right for a union to keep its members in the dark for months on end,we were up for striking, there was no need to accept a confidentiality clause by HQ,which side in this dispute does it benefit?

[Cut Off King]

As reguards to D2D's....

Why cant we have an increase in numbers, say 5 items ( what RM want )
Included in workload ( what CWU want )
Paid by the item ( what posties want )

That would be fair to the posties that are actually doing the work
If your doing the work, you get paid for it

Any system of payment for D2D's that rewards people unfairly ( eg. same payment for 400 drops as for 700 drops or indeed 0 drops ) will get a NO vote from me, and I suspect many others in delivery.

[dvbuk55]

As reguards to D2D's....

Why cant we have an increase in numbers, say 5 items ( what RM want )
Included in workload ( what CWU want )
Paid by the item ( what posties want )

That would be fair to the posties that are actually doing the work
If your doing the work, you get paid for it

Any system of payment for D2D's that rewards people unfairly ( eg. same payment for 400 drops as for 700 drops or indeed 0 drops ) will get a NO vote from me, and I suspect many others in delivery.

And that is the problem cutoff - getting the delivery staff to vote in great enough numbers - the nature of the work means we start at odd times are very busy and do not meet often enough to have a cohesive decision making process - mail centres have a much more formal approach to union business.