British postal union seeks to deliver management’s agenda

[dvbuk55]

Well despite what some say, the CWU has many failings and unlike some sycophants who are either unwilling or afraid to criticise many of us are not. Nor are we gullible enough to believe that all the decisions that are taken are in our best interests.

The article may well be from a left wing source but you have to admit it does have a ring of truth about it - and the truth is often something in short supply when the union communicates with its members.

If this union has a long term future it needs to learn to communicate with honesty and to place the facts, good and bad, before the membership and I do mean the union not posters on this forum. We should never enter into a secret negotiation again, all the facts and figures should be open to the whole membership - why? - because it is our money that funds the organisation.I believe that the organisation as it stands is flawed and that there is certainly an element of exclusion and exclusivity at all levels that needs to be addressed.

[axeman]

Not all the strikes were called by the union hirearchy 'Dingo' in fact the majority weren't it's only pressure from the ground slaves that force 'our' union into action otherwise they seem very complacent unless gavanised into action by 'us' ! otherwise only to willing to sit and deliberate on the easy things that fall into the 'in tray'
Trust is a two way thing and of times recent i'm afraid 'our union' is at best drooling on the negativies it really does need a dose of left wing action the only way to react against the regime that currently besets royal fail

[Martin Walsh]

Not all the strikes were called by the union hirearchy 'Dingo' in fact the majority weren't it's only pressure from the ground slaves that force 'our' union into action otherwise they seem very complacent unless gavanised into action by 'us' ! otherwise only to willing to sit and deliberate on the easy things that fall into the 'in tray'
Trust is a two way thing and of times recent i'm afraid 'our union' is at best drooling on the negativies it really does need a dose of left wing action the only way to react against the regime that currently besets royal fail

Your right most strikes were called by Branch`s and divisons but they were not called by the so called left.

But answer me this from 1971 till 1988 we only had two national strikes. Since 2003 we have had 3 ballots and two national strikes. In 2003 under the national ballots only one divison in the country got a majority for a yes vote. All the rest of the union voted no and were not up for the fight against the pay and major change agreement. The only thing that saved this union was the fact that London had achieved a yes vote for strike action over London Weighting and after two days of official strike action , Southall , Greenford , Dartford and West London were out on unofficial strike action , the rest of London decided to join them on unofficial action ( spontanious of course !! ) and this spread to Postmouth , Essex , Covertry and Warrington. We were out for two weeks non stop and a deal was evenutally done on pay and major change which included the £26.28 increase , the five day week and the biggest London weighting rise ever. This was the biggest unofficial dispute since the miners and was a rank and file dispute. The socialist left , the SWP , workers liberaty or any other group were nothing to do with that.

Now in terms of members losing trust and faith in the CWU , well I have been around for over 25 years and have heard this time and time again but every single time members have a choice do they back the CWU or Royal Mail 99 times out of a hundred they will choose the CWU. Look in my view is the union is in the workplace , I instantly know when I walk in an office whether the union is strong or not by rep and the his assistants.

Some on here slag the union off at every opportunity but then when you say well the union will allow you to the opporutnity to introduce what you want locally within the terms of the national agreement and then shock and horror they state that this is some kind of sell out. Instead they want CWU Headquaters to introduce their offices revison and change by remote control without them knowing what the walks are like in the office , what the members want in the office , what the profile of the office is and an hundred other factors which influence an offices revison. Its mind blowing !!

[dvbuk55]

What is mind blowing is the fact that so much of the agreements have been left to local reps to administer and agree.

What you are saying is if the office is "unionised" then they are going to get a better deal than if they are moderate, that equality in the workplace depends on the fact that "might is right". It may interest you to know dingo that almost a third of the office I am in are NOT members of the union - now how would you put up a united front to a management that know the union influence is marginal?

We keep hearing how strong London are and that is probably true BUT LONDON will find themselves isolated from the rest of the CWU membership if there is any whiff of nice cosy special agreements.

Do you know why the vote was lost in 2003? Because of London - many areas voted NO not because of the national vote but because the London weighting issue was piggy backed to the same vote.

[Tman]

Now with regards to some of you ( not all of you ) questioning the CWUs future well employment law allows you to join another union. If you feel that angry go and do it and see how that helps you with automation etc. The CWU may not be perfect but its a demoracy where if you dont like things you can lobby your Branch to go to conference and change policy etc.
I think that some posters on here will always criticise the union, but what do they do other than post on here to bring about change ??

"Nothing" is the most obvious answer. Same as all this pie-in-the-sky talk about leaving the CWU/joining some other union etc, it's all just fantasy.

The CWU (for all it's faults real or perceived) is the only union that's going to change or achieve anything. Why would the RMT or GMB wish to get involved with RM staff issues, when it's a union RM won't "recognise" in the workplace? As for the suggestion that the IWW would be an alternative.....

That said, criticism of the CWU by some Socialist this-that-the other Party can only be good, as those particular individuals tend to live in worlds divorced from any connection with reality...

[Lincox]

I tend to agree that the only union that will be recognised by Royal Mail is the CWU. But does that not say something in itself. Why is RM so hand in hand with the CWU. Dingo and Tman, I strongly believe that we need a strong union in our workplaces, but the problem for most members at this time is that we have now gone 3 months since the strike was called off in place of the interim agreement. Since then, bullying and harrasment by management has continued, executive action is not dead in the water, and we continue to see postmen of long standing being sacked, suspended on trumped up charges. We have not been advised by our union of any action that they have or are undertaking to stop the continued assaults on our members. This cannot possibly come under the auspices of the secrecy act agreed between the CWU and Royal Mail, but should be a normal part of our unions activity to stamp out these medieval practises that continue to blight our workplaces.
We are all well aware that the company are embarking on activities to trim down the workforce who have many years service, as this will save them many millions of pounds on money into the pension funds. Unless the CWU heirarchy begin to counteract these activities and can be seen to be doing something practical in this respect by the members, then we will continue to see counter productive comments about the CWU not only on this forum, but in the membership as a whole, and the long term future of the CWU will be compromised.

[axeman]

Dingo i didn't say the strikes were caused by far left members please don't come to your own conclusions! as for regions the vote on the pay & mod agrement was backed by your area reps who were ordered to go out and sell that pice of shi* that was that 'deal' not the members fault although i woud say there are offices that would and did vote for it willingly now just why am i sceptical about the offerings the next 'deal' is going to have ...yes i do distrust our pec members implicity ...oh and i personaly have never voted yes to any deal put forward by the cwu

[MinisterofCucumber]

Dingo wrote:

"I think that some posters on here will always criticise the union, but what do they do other than post on here to bring about change ??

I discovered that management had not paid us pay protection under the MTSF2 agreement eventhough our union rep and area rep both told me we had to accept the pay cut. I had to resort to writing to MPs to get my workmates the money they were owed. Our union rep even held a meeting telling members not to put in stage 2 grievances and they had to wait over two months to get their money whereas I was paid within a fortnight of raising my stage 1 grievance.

A few of my workmates had been paid substitution allowance for years instead of being temporarily promoted. Again, their grievances were not replied to. I had to write to the business partner to get them paid. On the very day that they received their back pay, my union rep was trying to argue with me that I had interpreted the substitution agreement incorrectly.

So far, about £50,000 has been recovered with no help from the union.

I have written to my branch secretary many times but he never answers my emails. Instead, he sends me messages via our union rep. I want to contest the area rep elections but have been told that only candidates recommended by the branch will be put up for election. Our area rep is a Labour councillor who is sponsored by the CWU, presumably our branch.

[Big Daz]

M of C

I would suggest you complain to HQ about the area rep election, as it so far removed from the rules of the union it is bizzare.

Any member can stand for any job in the branch (Not sure for Retired members officer, Political Officer, Womens officer and Youth officer), they simply need a proposer and seconder and all three of you fill in the nomination form.

Get a copy of your branch rule book.

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo i didn't say the strikes were caused by far left members please don't come to your own conclusions! as for regions the vote on the pay & mod agrement was backed by your area reps who were ordered to go out and sell that pice of shi* that was that 'deal' not the members fault although i woud say there are offices that would and did vote for it willingly now just why am i sceptical about the offerings the next 'deal' is going to have ...yes i do distrust our pec members implicity ...oh and i personaly have never voted yes to any deal put forward by the cwu

Axeman I was refering to the article !! For the record there were only nine Branch`s who voted no by a majority under the pay and mod and two of them were from London , North and North West London and London stations and transport amal.

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo wrote:

"I think that some posters on here will always criticise the union, but what do they do other than post on here to bring about change ??

I discovered that management had not paid us pay protection under the MTSF2 agreement eventhough our union rep and area rep both told me we had to accept the pay cut. I had to resort to writing to MPs to get my workmates the money they were owed. Our union rep even held a meeting telling members not to put in stage 2 grievances and they had to wait over two months to get their money whereas I was paid within a fortnight of raising my stage 1 grievance.

A few of my workmates had been paid substitution allowance for years instead of being temporarily promoted. Again, their grievances were not replied to. I had to write to the business partner to get them paid. On the very day that they received their back pay, my union rep was trying to argue with me that I had interpreted the substitution agreement incorrectly.

So far, about £50,000 has been recovered with no help from the union.

I have written to my branch secretary many times but he never answers my emails. Instead, he sends me messages via our union rep. I want to contest the area rep elections but have been told that only candidates recommended by the branch will be put up for election. Our area rep is a Labour councillor who is sponsored by the CWU, presumably our branch.

Dingo, we may not be able to halt the shafting. We have paid our money to the CWU to protect us from a shafting, not to apply the vaseline. If we do get shafted, we will make sure that you and every other collaborator gets what's coming to them. At the very least, it will mean a return to duty. Personally, I am not an advocator of violence. However, I would not be surprised if a lot of union officials were thrown out of a lot of windows.

By the way, Dingo, I don't believe your spelling mistakes are genuine. You are a third rate propagandist.

How bloody insulting is this post! Most know or think they do? who dingo is and whilst we may not agree with what he says all the time he looks after his guys and girls! Whats wrong with that? We all need someone like that! and his lot are a lot better off than the rest of us so maybe we need to learn from him rather than making stupid threats! MODS GET IN THERE PLEASE!

Linkin dont worry about it mate. Cheap shots and threats sum up some people who have lost the arguement.

Now before I sign off some of you need to understand that the negotations are the toughest that any of our national officers have ever faced. Of course some things will come in which some will think is wrong but perhaps the greatest challenge the union has to do is force Royal Mail to spell out the scale of their change. At the moment Royal Mail have never told their staff the scale of change they want. For the record Royal Mail had taken legal advice and were contemplating taking away all the money paid on door to door and instructing staff to delivery it in line with the normal work and within your contract of employment.

Your union has forced them into a postion where not only have they secured a payment for the future but it will now help to fill jobs within the revision.

[dvbuk55]

Actually dingo if you're one of us it is OUR union and that truly is the case, without the support of the members on the national strike there would be no negotiating and without having their arm twisted there would have been no national ballot and I do believe that London actually caused there to be a national ballot - without them, the ballot would not have been called and we would still be having individual ballots and EA. Not that EA has stopped of course but there is a more circumspect approach even if you end up with the same result.

What I would like to see above all else is a truly National Framework under which local negotiations could take place BUT within strict guidelines.

I would also like to see the agreements from ALL offices published and what benefits have been agreed elsewhere. After all Royal Mail are only too handy to quote A is doing such so you will - so lets have a little tit for tat. For example if office X has to work fewer Saturdays then office Y should be offered the same and it shouldn't matter where it is - our Park and Loop was implemented using Durham as a model - which is neither in the same area nor within a hundred and fifty miles.

[fishtank]

dingo wrote
"For the record Royal Mail had taken legal advice and were contemplating taking away all the money paid on door to door and instructing staff to delivery it in line with the normal work and within your contract of employment."


That's not news dingo they have been contemplating this since the ink dried on the D2D agreement.
Do you know what has always stopped them,not the legal issues but the fact that it would have a negative impact on the quality of the product,a quality that is at best inconsistent at the moment.
The whole D2D payment supplement and D2D into workload is an aim of Royal Mails and will help to drive up quality while maximising profits.
We will soon see just how much we have "won" from this pact.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

dingo when are you joining the IWW? You do a better job than most all in the CWU and could do it still whilst seeing a slightly different view on life? Respect Brother!

Well said Fellow Worker. Billy Hayes is no Frank Little! In fact, there's nothing little about Billy, including his expenses.

[2old4this]

I can only go by what people are saying where I work.

At the moment driver's PHGs ect dont do D2D, so will they still get the pay rise thats being talked about for them and we on the walk's do all the work.

Its clear there are a few people in the office that nobody, and I mean nobody is prepered to work with once these van duties come in, so will they force people that can't get along to work together.

One big gripe right now is we lost I think 20 day's through striking and was told to do the job properly by our rep, and now all I keep hearing on the floor, is for what. One rep even told us we would get duties back if we did the job properly, now we are being told by another of 4 duties being part-time and job losses when the new van's do come in.

I still support the union but they are going to have a job and a half selling this to our office and getting a yes vote.