TALKS:LETTER..

[smokerjim]

what about non members?

when the cwu do something postitive then i might join.

A few days ago you were whinging that you wanted to get your hands on the alleged £2k cash carrot that RM is supposed to give us to sign up to the forthcoming agreement, and when I suggested you ignore any potential for short term gain, and look at the long term T&Cs you dismissed my apprehensions ( pretty much from here ad naseum ), and though I didn't express it, I thought to myself, 'Christ on a bleedin' bike - if we have members like this voting on the agreement, it has to be a good 'un - if it's a lemon, we're going to be proper f*cked!'

Now though, my state of mind is much improved, knowing that, at this time, you have no right to vote on any prospective agreement, you have no right to oppose RMs decisions with Industrial Action, and no right to any assistance from the union if you need it.....in fact, as I see it at this time, the only thing you have a right to is an opinion - and as your opinions so far have been wild, ranting, dismissive and/or erratic imo, their worth is, also imo, somewhat questionable - I hope you enjoy your lack of influence

Toodle pip!

PS - all is not lost, see your rep at the next available opportunity, and ask for an application form - unless you're already subscribing to the other union ( UNITE / CMA )

[el_cartero]

no rep at my office ....
so we striked to improve conditions and royal mail said..... ok ok enoughs enough we will talk in 3 months. cwu agreed.

will the agreement improve things?

have the cwu done the right thing ?

have rm screwed us ?

will cwu accept that?

did the cwu make me strike for 4 days without pay forcing me into financial problems - for no reason - apart from getting these talks... that are goign to further demise me?!
wheres the sense in that.

im only going on the 6 months ive been here.

[Pegman]

This reminds me of that Postie in teh Courier who thought it would be a good idea for non-union members to be able to voice their opinions. someone has forgotten to tell him that there is such an Organisation, it's called the CWU, the problem is getting them to listen

[ghostgirl]

This reminds me of that Postie in teh Courier who thought it would be a good idea for non-union members to be able to voice their opinions. someone has forgotten to tell him that there is such an Organisation, it's called the CWU, the problem is getting them to listen

No nobody has forgotten to tell them that the CWU exsist they are just ignorant and think they still have a right to voice their opinions on any agreements without paying subs...and still take any pay rises and other benefits which the union and us union members fight so hard to get!!! I just hope one day they don't need the union to fight if they get unfairly dismissed or something because they would only be to quick in joining us union members then!!

[smokerjim]

El C, why isn't there a rep at your office? Have you thought of asking around if anyone would be prepared to be the rep? Has anyone contacted the Area rep for him to help at your office? Why not consider doing it yourself? There are lots of reps on here that can offer you some insight....and yes, I know from what they have said ( and looking at my own rep & assistant rep ), it is a hard, thankless, unpaid, unrewarded job.....but it is one way for people to make a difference at RM, to try and mould the job and it's staff to our advantage - not the advantage of those that make money off of our backs.....all we want, is a fair day's work, for a fair day's pay - all they want is ever increasing gain, for ever decreasing cost.

[smokerjim]

This reminds me of that Postie in teh Courier who thought it would be a good idea for non-union members to be able to voice their opinions. someone has forgotten to tell him that there is such an Organisation, it's called the CWU, the problem is getting them to listen

No nobody has forgotten to tell them that the CWU exsist they are just ignorant and think they still have a right to voice their opinions on any agreements without paying subs...and still take any pay rises and other benefits which the union and us union members fight so hard to get!!! I just hope one day they don't need the union to fight if they get unfairly dismissed or something because they would only be to quick in joining us union members then!!

How many reps have fought to save a non-member's position ( after that non-member has begged for help ), then later ( maybe years later ) seen that non-member cross a picket, laughing and joking as they go? Personally, as skewed as it currently seems ( members fight, everyone benefits ), I'd keep it like that, the Union should maintain the parity between members & non members - but enforce a rule that non members should not be represented by the CWU at all, even at local level. Nothing to stop someone signing up, to get representation - but if they leave, and don't rejoin soon after, then sod 'em!

[smokerjim]

This reminds me of that Postie in teh Courier who thought it would be a good idea for non-union members to be able to voice their opinions. someone has forgotten to tell him that there is such an Organisation, it's called the CWU, the problem is getting them to listen

No nobody has forgotten to tell them that the CWU exsist they are just ignorant and think they still have a right to voice their opinions on any agreements without paying subs...and still take any pay rises and other benefits which the union and us union members fight so hard to get!!! I just hope one day they don't need the union to fight if they get unfairly dismissed or something because they would only be to quick in joining us union members then!!

They have the right to voice their opinions, just as much as anyone else....but as they have not paid the Union to voice their opinion to RM, RM see their opinion is pretty much worthless....and the loss of their voice devalues everyone else's voice.

It's like people that won't vote in local or general elections, then whinge about their council tax or the price of petrol going up. I've voted in every election - even if it's been for a party with no chance, never voted Labour in my life & never spoiled a ballot paper.

[jcjd]

Put your money where your mouth is!. WHY SHOULD WE AS A UNION PAY FOR YOUR BENEFITS IF YOU DO NOT BACK US ALL!.

Too right ! If we all have to pay £3/week for the union to negotiate
1. more workload for the same money
2. more redundancies
3. loss of D2D payments (and more of them to deliver)
4. later starts / later finishes
then you should have to suffer and pay for things you don't want like the rest of us

want some spaire change CWU?

ill give u 20p for a talks update?
and if theres improvements i might join...
lets see whats gonna happen...

If everyone in RM were 100% behind our union then they would be albe to get a much better benifits package, but people like you continue to weaken the CWU's position

[saga]

Look - no union means NO SAY AT ALL!
Look - no union means YOU WILL DO WHAT WE WANT even if you do not agree.
The union ain't the answer to everything but by God its better to have SOME say instead of none.
Where do you non union members think we would be without union influence in the workplace.
I'll tell you -- lower wages, 100% part-time, sacked without just cause, low redundancy payments etc.
Join the union now, you just might need them one day

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Nor denigrating el_cartero's opinion but from his posts he has only been in the job 6 months or slightly less. 1/3 of that has been during the phoney war (aka discussions), probably a 1/3 whilst we were voting for and taking IA, and the rest when RM and the CWU were getting bad press. He has yet to feel the weight of RM when the Union is not in dispute mode and therefore has yet to see the real bad side. Give it a year 18 months at the outside and he could be a union stalwart.

[k979aaa]

Good or bad we as Union members got it! We voted it! Or let it in by stealth and DID NOTHING ABOUT IT! We all have a choice, we all have a vote so lets see what happens with this One! Still not met ONE PERSON THAT VOTED FOR 2007 - 2009 PAY and MOD! Will this be the same?

from what i hear the wording of the vote swung it most thought they were voting against (but was against action not for) It pays to read everything very carefully from royal mail or the CWU

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Good or bad we as Union members got it! We voted it! Or let it in by stealth and DID NOTHING ABOUT IT! We all have a choice, we all have a vote so lets see what happens with this One! Still not met ONE PERSON THAT VOTED FOR 2007 - 2009 PAY and MOD! Will this be the same?

One of the Moderators on here actually did cough and say they voted yes - and more power to his elbow. I disagreed with him but he at least did stand and was counted. Still think he was wrong though as evidenced by my blog at the time:

http://overpaidunderworked.blogspot.com ... -results=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

WELL WHAT IS MY VIEW

I am sorry but I can personally see no major changes from the offer that brought us out on a 2 48hour strikes and this new one. Okay there is more Union involvement in local and national issues but the main reasons I supported the strikes have not been addressed merely delayed. It is my honest view that if we accept this agreement then the Union will be damaged and Royal Mail will be a less enjoyable place to work. However one real concern I have is that this agreement is far to open to interpretation from both sides, and agreement this important needs to be more detailed and explicit.

IF THE DEAL IS ACCEPTED WHO WINS

Me - No my main points for striking have not been addressed for the most part and in fact some have already been conceded.

Union Members - No they are all in same position as me and some who have issues about the pension feel they have been sold down the river.

National Union Officers - Well they have more input into the delayed sections of the original offer so I think they are neither winners or losers except with the actual membership. If the vote turns out to be No the Union will be stronger but the officers reputation will be damaged.

Royal Mail - The definite winners they have either got exactly what they wanted in relation to pay rises and later starts. Where they have not got agreement they have merely delayed their plans so the Union have to approach each contentious issue individually and therefore on a piecemeal basis.

[borders]

Linkinpark, i think we need to have a understanding of how a Union operates in a Capitalist System. if we accept that Capitalism is the only game in town , then a Union will/can only operate in a Reformist manner ,that is to do deals with management and the Capitalist Elite. in good times the Elite will concede a few conditions , in the bad times they will attack such as we have seen. so its not a case of being Done over by the Union as you put it, Capitalism sets the rules and unfortunately even the Unions abide by them.

[smokerjim]

Linkinpark, i think we need to have a understanding of how a Union operates in a Capitalist System. if we accept that Capitalism is the only game in town , then a Union will/can only operate in a Reformist manner ,that is to do deals with management and the Capitalist Elite. in good times the Elite will concede a few conditions , in the bad times they will attack such as we have seen. so its not a case of being Done over by the Union as you put it, Capitalism sets the rules and unfortunately even the Unions abide by them.

It's amazing then ( using your theory ) that at the height of an economic boom, RM did nothing beyond attack and belittle the Union and it's members in 2007, pretty much from the initial negotiations right up to the Union losing the High Court case - granted, RM was not at the height of an economic boom......but that is / was hardly the fault of the Union or it's members......so if RM can change the "rules" ( or conventions if you prefer ) why shouldn't the Union or it's members?

[el_cartero]

got the letter yet?