UPDATE FROM HQ

[fishtank]

dingo wrote
"Yes it does include 75 /25 full time /part time mix."


I will ask this time.
Locally or nationally dingo.

Please.....

Stop begging You already know the answer - our office would have to create 20 full time from part time duties; an increase of hours from 30 hours to 40 hours would mean an increase of 200 hours per week minimum. That is not to say it couldn't be done but it would mean more job losses. We all know to whom the 75/25 refers to and I'll bet that in itself would have been a bitter pill.

It would seem questions with a positive response get answered and those that may be difficult for the membership to swallow get ignored.
I am sick of this propaganda,this talk the membership into a yes vote bullsh*t.
No- one should be in any camp, b*llocks If i pitched up at the YES camp right now i would know who the entertainments officer was without even looking.

[dvbuk55]

dingo wrote
"Yes it does include 75 /25 full time /part time mix."


I will ask this time.
Locally or nationally dingo.

Please.....

Stop begging You already know the answer - our office would have to create 20 full time from part time duties; an increase of hours from 30 hours to 40 hours would mean an increase of 200 hours per week minimum. That is not to say it couldn't be done but it would mean more job losses. We all know to whom the 75/25 refers to and I'll bet that in itself would have been a bitter pill.

It would seem questions with a positive response get answered and those that may be difficult for the membership to swallow get ignored.
I am sick of this propaganda,this talk the membership into a yes vote bullsh*t.
No- one should be in any camp, b*llocks If i pitched up at the YES camp right now i would know who the entertainments officer was without even looking.

Ah yes! A great trick that all psuedo-political hacks either assimilate or have a natural ability for.

You ask someone like Gordon Brown if the recession is over and he would probably reply - "It will be dark tonight until it gets light tomorrow" - when asked to qualify his answer he would say - "It is our aim for the sun to come up at sunrise, for some people".

I wonder if these hacks have their very own forum where snippets of information are bandied about and doled out to the usual suspects for dissemination to the masses?

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk and Fishtank I dont dodge any questions and I walk the walk as well as talk the talk. If I dont like something and it is not right than I will fight against it including doing my best to get the members on board for the fight. However what I never do is jump to conclusions without know the facts and you both are not aware of the facts are you ?

Now the answer to the question it will be a national figure which is an improvement on the current national figure which should not be under estimated as we are entering into the walk sequencing environment. Lets be clear those who currently have no part timers will see part timers come in and those with a massive amount of part timers may see an increase. No agreement would sail if you say every office had to have a 75/25 ratio. They would create a winners and losers agreement and would not be voted in. History shows how unpopular the winners and losers scenario is which was the main complaint of the way forward and perfomance bonus schemes.

Now your question regarding saturdays and why some would not finish late. Well later saturdays will only come in with walk sequencing , and remember it will then depend on the order of your office in the walk sequencing program you might be the first office on the machine or 2nd ,3rd or 4th. Plus remember each batch of work is appoxmately 12 walks so some walks within the office will get work before others. Plus in any case not all walks now finish at their normal saturday attendance times and I think that will be the same in the future.

Door to Door into workload is agreed subject to the full agreement being reached.

With regards to what money we want well we are not in the market for a lump sum it has to be a weekly increase which is guaranteed week in week out..

The option of improved attendances will be open to every office not just the ones who have it now.

Yes I do agree the timescales were unrealistic given the fact that this is the biggest and most significant agreement in a generation in Royal Mail. But if any of you have ever been involved in talks before then if you set a timescale which is to long then everyone starts off in 2nd gear meeting less frequently and the talks would still be delayed.

[feduppostie]

no lump sum then as we are not in the market(!)

and d2d being agreed??????????


by whom not us that's for sure

tell them to go do a delivery for a month and then see how good the deal looks then

seriously if this is the best the union can do I personally volunteer to hold the chair at the next talks

[dvbuk55]

Thank you dingo for your timely response.

You are correct about the facts - we only have the facts that you have been gracioous enough to tell us.

Now 75/25% - those who haven't got any will see them coming in and those who have them may see an increase? Well we are already at 60/40 so where would you put the ceiling on those figures? Bearing in mind of course that we have been implementing change since 2008, who is going to monitor the split - which is of course totally unpoliced, unregulated and is really not an option given the walk sequencing and modern delivery method.

How very meet that you bring up the subject of winners and losers not being popular - those who finish on Saturday at say 1pm would presumably be the winners over those who will finish at say 3pm - yes I could see that being a bone of contention right enough. Is that really what we are all about nowadays? Once upon a time this job was relatively easy and so the little foibles between areas and offices was easy to ignore but not any longer.

Is CWU HQ going to support any action brought about by wanting to change the delivery/attendance pattern in any office wanting to change but whose management refuses to negotiate? I mean if an office currently operates a 5 over 6 with a rotating day but would prefer a 6 over 6 with a sixth week free, or 4 over 6 etc and how would that gel with a shorter working week with a longer delivery span which would necessitate a major overhaul of current office practice?

You see dingo the more that these details become clear the more there does seem to be winners and losers, which is something you profess to be against.

[Dogs of War]

D2D's into workload = No payment Im i right. If right this is the end for me.

[jaja]

In other words feckin shafted :mfo :cfo :lfo

[mfranney1977]

look forward to 7 am till 3pm five door to doors 35hr contracts full timers mon til fri part timers cover full time duties on sat i have been in royal mail for ten years now i am on a 35 hr a week contract the chances of getting five hrs a week of the manegement are very poor we r the first office in scotland with peagusus last yr and now they want another 40 hrs of savings per week our cwu rep and area rep tryed to fight peagusus and we got told to take it on the chin by norrie watson i mean wtf

[mfranney1977]

In other words feckin shafted :mfo :cfo :lfo

spot on no strikes over christmas the cwu lost all the power over royal mail i did two days of strike for bugger all

[Big Daz]

D2D's into workload = No payment Im i right. If right this is the end for me.

CWU policy is for you to recive a weekly supplement, if that stays in place and forms part of the final agreement then its a matter of how it work.

Very tricky to avoid loosers and winners with this as in my D.O there is a urban bike round with 600+ stops as its so compact yet on the other hand we have rurals with around 300 stops and are very spaced out. If we all get the same amount that would seem unfair due to the difference in items being handled.

[bogstandard]

no lump sum then as we are not in the market(!)

and d2d being agreed??????????


by whom not us that's for sure

tell them to go do a delivery for a month and then see how good the deal looks then

seriously if this is the best the union can do I personally volunteer to hold the chair at the next talks

IMO doing a delivery for a month could be done as there would be light, no matter how faint, at the end of the tunnel. What is required is doing the job for the remainder of your employment. This would give a truer reflection on not only the body but also the mind.
The question is would or even could it happen, how about a motion to conference ha ha ha. it would get knocked nack by the reps on full time release. and the doctors bill to surgicaly remove comfy chairs would be astronomical

[Martin Walsh]

D2D's into workload = No payment Im i right. If right this is the end for me.

You will get a payment and it will be 52 weeks per year and it will be for everyone in your office. Plus you will have it in your workload which will help with your revisions , plus its a growth product.

Remember Royal Mail`s orginal postion is that you are employed to deliver mail and we are now going to stop paying for door to door all together.

I think you should judge the agreement in full before you say the strike was pointless. Ask any senior manager and they will telll you they thought they would break us last year and be able to introduce all the change without any safeguards and benefits. Well its not happening.

But the unions been up front in everything they have said . whether its on door to door where Bob Gibson has answered letter after letter in the vioce on Door to Door. Plus Door to Door into workload whilst protecting the payment has been union policy at annual conference since 1994.

The union has consistantly had to state that we have to deal with automation and that will mean job lossess , but it should be with protection of full time jobs and with no complusory redundancies.

[Martin Walsh]

no lump sum then as we are not in the market(!)

and d2d being agreed??????????


by whom not us that's for sure

tell them to go do a delivery for a month and then see how good the deal looks then

seriously if this is the best the union can do I personally volunteer to hold the chair at the next talks

IMO doing a delivery for a month could be done as there would be light, no matter how faint, at the end of the tunnel. What is required is doing the job for the remainder of your employment. This would give a truer reflection on not only the body but also the mind.
The question is would or even could it happen, how about a motion to conference ha ha ha. it would get knocked nack by the reps on full time release. and the doctors bill to surgicaly remove comfy chairs would be astronomical

I know a lot of Area reps who have had to return to delivery as a result of Royal Mail`s policy of sending reps back to work if they believe un official action has taken place, and they say the job is hard but its a welcome relief to get away from all the stress and repsonbility you have as a union official at times as its a thank less task, without any reward. They dont get paid any extra for it !!

But I like to think I get to load of different offices and speak to members and reps all the time. I visited and deal with over an hundred different delivery units in the last year and I have negotated on over 50 offices since November so I think I can state I understand the ins and outs of each delivery units and believe me no two offices are the same.

So who has more experience in deal with deliveries someone who does a walk day in day out , or someone who has knowledge of the enitre pipeline , what the machines will do , what delivery methods will do and what the workplan will do and have reports from every area rep in the country ?

[AndyK]

75/25 ratio can only be achieved if deliveries are a lot longer i.e. 4-5 hours probably nearer 5 and you cut part time staff i.e. The next four years (due to sequencing etc) we are going to see tens of thousands of posties lose their job to make the ratio 75/25 it would have to be part timers.

[dvbuk55]

Yes very interesting - knowing what something will do and actually doing it are not quite the same. For example I have been in a helicopter many many times, I have seen them in operation, I know how they work BUT I couldn't fly one - but the bloke who does it every day can.

Any chance you could answer the points on office re-organisation on duty specs and the 75/25 split and the winners and losers issues?

On D2Ds when you say everyone will be given the payment in the office does that mean non-delivery staff too?