British postal union seeks to deliver management’s agenda

[rockytony67]

So you accept the views of the "World Socialist web site" that the union is just a rubber stamp, but then in the next breath say

"But really the answer to that question will be answered when we see what the original aims of Royal Mail were and what the union has managed to achieve for us - or not."

You can't lose dvbuk, whatever the deal is you will criticize it, you haven't even seen it, and yet you've been moaning about it for weeks

but you still haven't answered my question should RM workers have a union or not because whatever the deal is they will have a vote on it, what's your view

My view is that the membership will vote for whatever is recommended.

As for the agreement - I don't like the bits that have been dribbled out - but then it only really concerns deliveries in places North of Watford, London has its own agenda and MCs are hardly in the frame are they?

You really have a problem with posties in London don't you duvbuk I have no idea why, and I can assure you that the walks or streets are not paved with gold, I don't know what your agenda is, and I have no problem with 99% of it, but your continued attacks on posties in London is uncalled for

[dvbuk55]

So you accept the views of the "World Socialist web site" that the union is just a rubber stamp, but then in the next breath say

"But really the answer to that question will be answered when we see what the original aims of Royal Mail were and what the union has managed to achieve for us - or not."

You can't lose dvbuk, whatever the deal is you will criticize it, you haven't even seen it, and yet you've been moaning about it for weeks

but you still haven't answered my question should RM workers have a union or not because whatever the deal is they will have a vote on it, what's your view

My view is that the membership will vote for whatever is recommended.

As for the agreement - I don't like the bits that have been dribbled out - but then it only really concerns deliveries in places North of Watford, London has its own agenda and MCs are hardly in the frame are they?

You really have a problem with posties in London don't you duvbuk I have no idea why, and I can assure you that the walks or streets are not paved with gold, I don't know what your agenda is, and I have no problem with 99% of it, but your continued attacks on posties in London is uncalled for

Now rocky I don't really have a problem with London posties, it would appear that London have a problem with the rest of us. Now this may be a leap of faith but perhaps you can recall the cessation of the strikes when the Interim Agreement or Joint statement as I prefer to call it was announced - hotly followed by:

CWU LONDON & ROYAL MAIL LONDON ......................... blah blah blah because of the special circumstances blah blah

[rockytony67]

So what special circumstances did London posties get, that was not available elsewhere in the country, just one example will do

[dvbuk55]

So what special circumstances did London posties get, that was not available elsewhere in the country, just one example will do

Individual negotiators for the special circumstances surrounding the implementation of phase two which hadn't been carried out in London, surprisingly, which was to be considered a special case because of the 20 days loss of pay due to strikes.

There is also a document which has been changed by hand to read CWU London and Royal Mail London as though they are a seperate entity - and as I said at the time are they financially self supporting or do we all actually chip in our share?

[POSTMAN]

dv The London docs you mention,we're they sent out to everyone,or are you referring to what you have seen on here?
Because as you know,most info comes from London on here.

PS:It's a nightmare trying to get our exec action sorted down here.

[dvbuk55]

dv The London docs you mention,we're they sent out to everyone,or are you referring to what you have seen on here?
Because as you know,most info comes from London on here.

PS:It's a nightmare trying to get our exec action sorted down here.

It's a nightmare to sort out anywhere, more particularly when it has gone on for so long. The interim agreement provided for negotiation on changes implemented in 2009 and ours went back to 2008 long before the call for no cooperation or change - so you can imagine the call for a national ballot to support people who had seen little or no change was supported only to be repaid by a special arrangement.

It may well surprise some people to learn that we in the north visit the south and learn some of the little foibles that occur in those areas that would not be tolerated elsewhere.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Back to the topic. We are all angry and for good reason. We want justice. We must avenge our workmates that have suffered and our future workmates whom we have let down.

We have trusted the CWU and the Labour Party and they have betrayed us.

We must make every single bullying manager and every single collaborating union rep pay. We must show no mercy.

Royal mail can only survive if we get rid of the bully managers and their union lackeys. We need new management and a new union. That's the modernisation we need. Let's put these bastards on the dole and see how they like it.

[Night Tonic]

What with? Rolling pins? And who are these future workmates that we've let down and don't even exist? That'll be something, fighting for people who don't even work for RM. Sounds about right.

[BELIAL]

One of the problems in running a massive union is the need to maintain unity. It is simply not enough to just try and do the right thing, you have to be SEEN to be doing the right thing to maintain unity.

It looks like our leadership have failed to learn this lesson. As soon as they agreed to the secrecy clause they handed RM the whip. If you let management set the rules of the game then you will always have an uphill battle to get a half decent result.
Please ,no more old pony about secrecy being essential to prevent divisive rumours
Secrecy means the membership feel excluded ,treated like pawns in our leaderships game,patronized. Management don't need mass unity to function ,they can work by diktat .

What have we got to hide anyway?

[MinisterofCucumber]

Night Tonic,

I would not advise you to administer punishment by rolling pin, either by striking or insertion.

The future workmates I refer to are the future generations of RM workers who will not enjoy benefits like a final salary pension because they have been selfishly given away by senior union officials who made sure they were all right.

[heapsy]

very dissappointing to read this as a cwu rep... but no point shying away from the truth!

yeah im a cwu rep aswell and have to say that sums up my concerns with the union.The 'dont rock the boat and turn a blind eye culture' has been my experience locally and as everybody who gives a s**t knows the flow of information from HQ to divisional to area to shop floor is a total disgrace.

And that only serves to erode the influence of the union further. When reps cannot provide the information that their members need, it makes the members turn their backs on the union, so the whole cycle is repeated. Very destructive if you ask me.

[mailsort6]

Back to the topic. We are all angry and for good reason. We want justice. We must avenge our workmates that have suffered and our future workmates whom we have let down.

We have trusted the CWU and the Labour Party and they have betrayed us.

We must make every single bullying manager and every single collaborating union rep pay. We must show no mercy.

Royal mail can only survive if we get rid of the bully managers and their union lackeys. We need new management and a new union. That's the modernisation we need. Let's put these bastards on the dole and see how they like it.

I totally agree to a point, we need properly trained union reps alot do not go on the courses they are suppose to and alot are not retained. If I need help from a rep, I go to a rep who knows what they are doing.

[ghostgirl]

I have worked for companies in the past which had no union in place and it's not good!! Modernisation and changes got forced through without the workers having any say and also people losing thier jobs because of it!! At least we do get a vote in what happens and if we don't agree with what is proposed then we must vote NO.

[MinisterofCucumber]

I'm not saying we shouldn't have a union, I'm saying we shouldn't have this union.

The RMT seem to be much more effective than the CWU, for example.

[Martin Walsh]

You couldt make it up we have a report from a left wing group and everyone believes it and slags the CWU off.

For the record unlike other unions in particular the RMT and Unison the CWU has never been dominated by so called left wing groups !! The fact is that they have never led anything in this union.All they are intested in is glorious defeat.

This report is wrong for the following reasons,

The referal about the London Divison is completely wrong thats a fact. Yes after the 5th Novemenber we wanted the strike back on but we got a joint statement with ACAS involvement and somethings have moved on. We will reserve our right to judge the agreement on the facts and not the fiction I read on here posted by people who seem to wish that the deal is crap and post things to try and convince others its crap. Well it wont work , people will have every opporutunity to campaign against the agreement once they have read it. But dont try and make out to members that the strike was a waste of time when you dont even know whats in the agreement that is cheap and wrong.

Secondly the shorter working week gross or net is a red herring, this union has carried policy after policy on reducing the working week since the 80s and you know what we have only had 3 hours off the working week since 1988. Why because its not an arguement which members naturally want to go out on strike on especially if the choice is more pay or less hours. In any case there is not going to be a net working week.

The other is the union is some how in Royal Mail `s pocket and does everything which Royal Mail wants. What a load of crap !! The CWU has more strikes than any other union including the RMT and is still the strongest union in the workplace. Thats is why other unions want to merge with us.

Now with regards to the claim that the CWU have accepted automation and that is wrong. Well what the bloody hell are we meant to do burn the machines and turn into ludites. Fact facts we have had automation in since the late 70s and you cant stop automation. You either ingnore and get taken to the cleaners or you make sure you get safeguards and benefits from it.

Now with regards to some of you ( not all of you ) questioning the CWUs future well employment law allows you to join another union. If you feel that angry go and do it and see how that helps you with automation etc. The CWU may not be perfect but its a demoracy where if you dont like things you can lobby your Branch to go to conference and change policy etc.

I think that some posters on here will always criticise the union, but what do they do other than post on here to bring about change ??