National Negotiations – Extended into next week,and the next

[dvbuk55]

I would imagine it is door to door and longer Saturdays - if they are the two - then the third one would be IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT - so perhaps it is a little bit further away than the truth thinks.

On that subject, the money, it would need to be something quite substantial really, considering we didn't have a pay rise in 2009 any offer, be it % or lump sum would really have to be halved to reflect a true value for e.g. 4% would be 2%, £2000 would become £1000 less tax and insurance .............................. lets hope the negotiators have a realistic reward in mind!

[fishtank]

Some will try to fool you into thinking that negotiating an agreement is all about give and take.
What it really boils down to especially in the final days when it's time to talk about the difficult issues is..

Who needs the agreement the most. Us or Them.


Will Royal Mail try to implement these changes without agreement? In my opinon not in their present form

Last years executive action was as much to do with provoking industrial action as saving money.
Royal Mail wanted a new agreement just as much if not more than the CWU did.
But as with everything when you are dealing with overinflated egos on both sides a pantomime of "who could p1ss the highest" had to be played out.
Unfortunately the ordinary members of this union had to pay for this.

The next few days SHOULD yeild the greatest prizes for the CWU if they understand the position they are in.
but i fear,if certain posts on here are indicative,too many of our negotiators lack the courage to push home that advantage.

[PostieWithTheMostie!]

Wasn't FRIDAY just the worst day to start talks....??? Really the last working day of the week probably after a long week... You think the Pen-Pushers would have a brain cell between the lot of them ( Probably the reason why hee-haw's been settled ) and pick a day like a MONDAY to start them..

[Danelectro]

Judging by the posts so far it seems that working later during the week is not a issue for anybody and only later fin on a Saturday is? During the keep the post public campaign(which should have been shadowed by planned IA over the introduction of pegasus/geo route- thats the truth,the truth) the CWU line was royal mail must not be privatised or it will lead to a poorer service such as receiving your mail later in the day etc etc... id rather bludgeon my manhood off with a rusty spanner than listen to some of the reasons given why the whole network has to stay the same and deliveries are shunted forward two hours!!where there is a will there is a way!So why isnt anybody coming up with a design for a network that includes deliveries being before dinner time...

[PostieWithTheMostie!]

Hip Hip Hooray for PostMania for their comment at the bottom of Page 2... I think you've just about nailed it.

P.s. Why aren't you running RM or even the Country.. Probably because you have too much common sense!

[The truth!]

Postie with the mostie not have a go at you mate but what planet are you on if you think the talks only started on Friday ? They have been going on since the 5th November.

This week they had meetings on most days , and from wednesday they were in an hotel on the outskirts of winchester hoping to crack a deal working through the night

The talks have taken as long as they have because Royal Mail want a deal which suits them and the CWU are determind to get the right deal which not only protects the members but also gives them benefits.

Now Dvbuk we all know the price must be right. But the members will decide on that. Did you think the £26.28 and the 5 day week was the right price for SDD ? or the £800 and the two pay rises 7.9% in total for pay and Mod ?

Out of intrest what kind of shorter working week would you want ? Some dont seem to want a 35 hour net working week even thou that will increase the hourly rate and move our pay to £350 per week in the first year of 3 year deal meaning that year two and three that the pay rise would be place on the higher rate and therefore mean more money in the pocket.

Fishtank you analysis of last year is way off the mark . Royal Mail wanted to destroy the union last year they planned to take us out. They didt want any more agreements. They thought the union were not united. They thought that only a small number of units would fight.

They thought the union was split , to a certain degree that was right , remember Scotland who were involved in some of the first strikes had big splits with the East coast and West coast. there were splits in other divisons ,and of course there was Mail centres queing up to do the work of London mail centres on extra shifts when they were on stike.

There were some divisons who were slow off the mark , didt want to know at first even thou everyone unamiously passed the motion at Conference.

Royal Mail thought they would finish the union in the Summer as Headquaters were intially to slow to ballot the rest of the UK .

But on the back of the local disputes talks began and eventually the union balloted everyone and the UK delivered and two days of national strike action led to the interim agreement.

The point is they were forced into that postion , they never went of their own accord, if you think they did then you must have been on the sidelines when the action was going on.

Now Royal Mail know they need a deal with the union to prevent further industrial unrest in the parts of the country. They also know there are areas where they could introduce their plan without resistance. Sadly those are the facts.

Tempting as it is for some to walk away from any deal , wont mean it does not come into some of your offices where you argue you dont want local agreements. In fact Royal Mail management know exactly who they know will resist and who wont.

No deal does not mean no change. It means that you will still face some of those changes but on a local basis without a national agreement in place.

Stick with the CWU. They know that walking away is a last resort , as its not a great postion , but they will only do a deal which is the best deal they can reach.

[dvbuk55]

Now Dvbuk we all know the price must be right. But the members will decide on that. Did you think the £26.28 and the 5 day week was the right price for SDD ? or the £800 and the two pay rises 7.9% in total for pay and Mod ?

We paid a price for the £26.28. The two pay rises in total for pay and mod - what are you smoking - the rise was nothing like 7.9 - as I recall it was something like 2.9 followed by 1.5 followed by nothing - so lets not quote figures that mean nothing and are actually a figment of your imagination - so if you want to quantify lets say it was 4.4 over three years and we are moving backwards in the pay stakes not forward - and as for the £350 and the promise of future pay rises - lets see the money. I wouldn't be voting for anything that wasn't written in blood.

[The truth!]

Dvbuk its you who has been smoking the funny stuff the deal was 5.4 up front with a further pay rise in 2008 On Monday when I get a chance i will post the pay rates up for you.

[fishtank]

the truth wrote
"Fishtank you analysis of last year is way off the mark . Royal Mail wanted to destroy the union last year they planned to take us out. They didt want any more agreements. They thought the union were not united. They thought that only a small number of units would fight.

They thought the union was split , to a certain degree that was right , remember Scotland who were involved in some of the first strikes had big splits with the East coast and West coast. there were splits in other divisons ,and of course there was Mail centres queing up to do the work of London mail centres on extra shifts when they were on stike."


RM didn't want any more agreements.
Yes you must be right after P&M2007 they must have been terrified of agreements.
The union is far more divided today than it was 12 months ago,who shall we blame that on.


"Now Royal Mail know they need a deal with the union to prevent further industrial unrest in the parts of the country. They also know there are areas where they could introduce their plan without resistance. Sadly those are the facts."


And they didn't know this 12 months ago because?
Or do you believe that 5 months of local action during which time HQ wrung it's hands and tried to think of something clever to say followed by 2 yes 2 whole days of national action brought RM to it's senses.
And these areas where they could introduce their plan without resistance,are they outwith the reaches of HQ,I know that communication is not the unions strongest suit but how hard is it to lift the phone and say no.

[DGP1]

Dvbuk its you who has been smoking the funny stuff the deal was 5.4 up front with a further pay rise in 2008 On Monday when I get a chance i will post the pay rates up for you.

I think you'll find that the 5.4 was over 2 years (and not back dated) and the 1.5 was for the next year, so it was nothing near the 7% that you're talking about.

I fear that you don't understand the depth of feeling amongst most posties at the way they've been treated over the past couple of years and all you can seem to do is blame them for not holding the line, well my office agreed to nothing but we had everything that RM wanted just forced onto us.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Dvbuk its you who has been smoking the funny stuff the deal was 5.4 up front with a further pay rise in 2008 On Monday when I get a chance i will post the pay rates up for you.

I think you'll find that the 5.4 was over 2 years (and not back dated) and the 1.5 was for the next year, so it was nothing near the 7% that you're talking about.

I fear that you don't understand the depth of feeling amongst most posties at the way they've been treated over the past couple of years and all you can seem to do is blame them for not holding the line, well my office agreed to nothing but we had everything that RM wanted just forced onto us.

3. SECTION 1: EMPLOYEE PAY AND BENEFITS
1.1 A non-consolidated lump sum of £175 per FT employee pro-rata for
PT employees (covering the April to September period). This is
funded by the ESOS pot. (Area based and Network drivers will not
be eligible for the lump sum.)
1.2 October 1st 2007: A pay increase of 5.4% for all grades
(except network drivers) on basic pay (including London pay
ranges), weekday overtime and Scottish Distant Islands
Allowance only.
1.3 Early shift allowances in delivery retained as grandfather rights (for
those in receipt since April 2007), including those in receipt of
equivalent MTSF payments for changes made since May 2005. We
will agree how this money, and equivalent MTSF payments for early
shifts, may be used going forward as part of the pay restructuring
process in Joint Working Group 2 – if no satisfactory solution is
found then grandfather rights will be retained. The early shift
payment is ceased in delivery on agreement to pay restructuring.
1.4 To support modernisation phase one and two:
• 50:50 productivity scheme as set out in the appendix of this
offer
• £400 of the potential ColleagueShares dividend payment will be
made in April 2008 to offices which have completed their
deployment of the agreed unit plan in Phase 2 of the
modernisation process.
• The remaining potential dividend payment from ColleagueShares
scheme over this year and next, split as follows:
o £400 for achievement of Group profit in 2007/08
o £200 for achievement of the local target for 2008/09.
o £200 for achievement of Group profit in 2008/09
1.5 April 2008: A 1.5% increase for all grades on basic pay (including
London pay ranges), weekday overtime and Scottish Distant Islands
Allowance only.
This payment will be made locally when the flexibility defined as
phase 3 in section two of this agreement has been implemented.
1.6ESOS will be closed immediately and the pot has been exhausted
(subject to the ongoing joint audit) but will continue to accrue monies
from the automation projects and closure plans already in the scheme
at 10 October 2007.
1.7The next pay review will be April 2009.

[Eric]

The end of this week is the deadline for many people to decide whether or not to take their pension early. As a result of the delays it looks like they will have to make this decision without knowing the results of these negotiations which could have a major impact on that decision.

Still, at least our negotiators got a nice long Christmas break and didn't have to go out in the snow.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Dvbuk its you who has been smoking the funny stuff the deal was 5.4 up front with a further pay rise in 2008 On Monday when I get a chance i will post the pay rates up for you.

I think you'll find that the 5.4 was over 2 years (and not back dated) and the 1.5 was for the next year, so it was nothing near the 7% that you're talking about.

I fear that you don't understand the depth of feeling amongst most posties at the way they've been treated over the past couple of years and all you can seem to do is blame them for not holding the line, well my office agreed to nothing but we had everything that RM wanted just forced onto us.

In fact as the 5.4 and 1.5 (total 6.9) now covers 2007,2008,2009 pay reviews it means an average rise of only 2.3% per year.

Pity as the Annual RPI for the 3 years are:

2007 4.3% 2008 4.0% 2009 2.4%

and CPI

2007 3.0% 2008 3.1% 2009 2.9%

[clashcityrocker]

Judging by the posts so far it seems that working later during the week is not a issue for anybody and only later fin on a Saturday is?...

Wrong. For those of us with primary school-age children the later finishes will cause time/money problems during the week and financial problems during the holidays.
Whereas I used to be able to put my kids into half-day schemes during the holidays knowing I could pick them up by 1pm, now it will have to be full day at twice the cost.
Family Friendly? They wouldn't know the meaning of it even if it bit them.

[Big Daz]

To take what The Truth said and put it more simply, was the hard cash going into your weekly wage along with the lump sums suitable reward for the changes that went with that money?

Yes or No