National Negotiations – Extended into next week,and the next

[shimmyrule]

cant argue wi that bud, well said
simple job made difficult.

[fishtank]

Never mind asking what we want theres no need. Its just so damn Obvious..ask the customer.

Customer wants his mail on his Mat in the morning AM!....

Customer is prepared to pay a small Premium for a fast reliable service, not a 2nd rate afternoon delivery...all this does is create a huge window of oppurtunity for the competition.. We might as well just deliver it the following day...DOH!

The super sorting machines cant get us out the door in time + Machine sorted mails are strewn with miss-sorts, they cost Millions..money better spent keeping people working and contributing to the economy anyways.

Deliverty spans need to be sized so they will not see us all in a wheel chair before we retire...10mls per day in 3-1/2hrs is plenty physically.. ..4hrs plus 12 +ml deliveries..no thanks DOH!

Shared delivery van. Slower, more costly, enviromentally un-friendly...DOH

Bike, cheap, manouvarable, green, cost effective...DOH!

Royal Mail was the finest delivery system in the world and was refined over 200+ years to make it what it was... The only thing thats destroying it is the greed of those at the top lining there own pockets and misinformed speculators looking for a fast buck on the stock exchange.

The Country as a whole has no industry left.

The UK has nothing left to sell.

Unless Polititions wake up we are all done.. Less people working means less Goverment income, higher taxes for the few that are working.

Workers pay Governments debts but only if we can work.

Not everyone can have a premadona job and pay to match.

No one should be earning obscene wages at the expense of others who work harder and longer than they can imagine just to feed there family and pay there way in life.

CWU..STOP pi$$ing around cut the crap and tell them straight or they will Kill RM for ever and with it the little remaining hope of 160,000 RM workers.

Longer Spans..NO
Longer Saturdays...NO
Mecanisation..NO
Later deliveries...NO


Quality Of Service...YES
Speed Of Delivery...YES
Reliability... YES
Dependability...YES
Happy Customer...YES
Fair days work for a fair Pay..YES

Great post and i agree with most of it.
But you've made a common mistake...The "Customer" is not the one who gets the mail it's the one that sends it.What do they want?

[Postmania]

Ah..but the recipitant is often the customer who paid for that service...LOL I'll settle 50-50

[DirtyHarry]

Harry,as has been posted many times mate the price of a Mon-Fri in jobs is just too high.

Blimey, mate......we're losing colleagues nationally on a weekly basis, to be replaced by part-timers, or simply not replaced at all. Since 2003, we've lost something between 40,000-65,000, depending on whose figures you believe are the most accurate, and that's with saturday working.
The CWU isn't protecting full-time jobs, it's kidding itself, and it's conning the rest of us, if it thinks it is.

[fishtank]

Harry,as has been posted many times mate the price of a Mon-Fri in jobs is just too high.

Blimey, mate......we're losing colleagues nationally on a weekly basis, to be replaced by part-timers, or simply not replaced at all. Since 2003, we've lost something between 40,000-65,000, depending on whose figures you believe are the most accurate, and that's with saturday working.
The CWU isn't protecting full-time jobs, it's kidding itself, and it's conning the rest of us, if it thinks it is.

Totally agree Harry,I just can't be the one to pull the trigger.

[pondhopper]

I heard a bit of a rumour today and this was meant to have come from a manager in our DO and although I didn't get this first hand, it's probably been distorted, chinese whispers etc, so if it's true are they sounding out the posties for a reaction maybe?

When walk sequenced mail is finally introduced and put into place, we could be getting new start times. 11-7pm!
:cfo Like fekk!! They can go :mfo
Who the hell came up with that idea..!?
I sincerely hope it isn't true.

[Ernie Shoe]

quote="The truth!"]Sometimes some of you need a reality check , you really believe that the cwu wishes to sell you out with every agreement. What a load of bolloxs.

Lets get things straight

Well some of you are argueing that you stay at 3.5 hours , well thats what the union negotaited in 2003 , yet offices have agreed to go passed that 4 hours without the national union agreeing it.

Dingo / The Truth that's why I as a fee paying member want NATIONAL agreements in place for everything because when they are left to local agreement they go tits up.

[mailman337]

lets hope it's on a ship like the titanic eh night tonic .......

That should go down well !!! :lfo :lfo

[Big Daz]

quote="The truth!"]Sometimes some of you need a reality check , you really believe that the cwu wishes to sell you out with every agreement. What a load of bolloxs.

Lets get things straight

Well some of you are argueing that you stay at 3.5 hours , well thats what the union negotaited in 2003 , yet offices have agreed to go passed that 4 hours without the national union agreeing it.

Dingo / The Truth that's why I as a fee paying member want NATIONAL agreements in place for everything because when they are left to local agreement they go tits up.

Ernie shoe

There is a national aggrement in place, but lower level CWU people allowed something different to happen, it was not left to local aggrements as local agreement should never have neen given in the first place unless approval has been given from HQ, which we know has not happened. At no point have CWU HQ said going over 3.5 hours is down to local areas to decide, CWU policy from HQ nad nationally agreed is that deliveries hould be planned on the basis of 3.5 hours.

Some places may have smaller spans, but I consider that to be within the spirt of the agreement as the golden rule of not going over 3.5 hours has been kept to.

[The truth!]

You argue for National agreements well there is one 3.5 hours SDD span , yet over 150 offices in the UK have agreed to move to longer spans ingnoring that national agreement . Why because it maximised full time jobs and made a number of part time to full time.

There is no national agreement on GEO ROUTE , Car dervierd vans , yet hundreds of offices decided to use geo route despite the national union stating that there should be no co -orperation. Of course Royal Mail then told the union they didt need a national agreement for Geo route as it was being widely used in the field.

Now I realise some of you are members and not reps therefore have to rely of how strong your rep and area rep is.

But at the risk of repeating myself the national agreement will provide a framework with both mandatory requirements and sageguards for your rep to then introduce on the ground based on local circumstances of your office and the members within your units desires.

There is no star chamber where CWU HQs and Royal Mail HQs will do the negotations for the times of attendance , the number of staff full time /part time , earnings etc into 15000 delivery units as it would not work and would cause widespread anger and clams that the union has not consulted the workforce in the units.

In any case remember this agreement will effect offices at different times ie some will first have geo route , some with have delivery methods , some will have walk sequencing and some will have both or all 3 at the same time. It will depend on where you are in the programme. Plus on walk sequencing it will depend on where your office is on the machine order to what time you will get the 2nd batch of work into your office.

Now Dvbuk you say it must have been easier to achieve agreement on processing and network. How wrong you are . All the strands are differcults in processing Royal Mail wanted the union to sign up to 50% less mail centres in line with the Hooper report , plus in network they want to outsource a lot of work , plus they wanted in all the operations strands to have a no strike clause in it.

None of which we were ever going to agree. But Royal Mail were determind to get.

Now someone said ask the customer and oppose the change. Well we have already done that and we have campaigned long and hard over the fact that Royal Mail"s version of modensation will make the service worse.

Sadly all the Government and Royal Mail is now intrested in is that the money from the Government has been spent on the Solystic walk sequencing machines which have been deployed in 70 units and will be deployed at the rate of 3 per week until the last machines are deployed in 2012.

Once your office has walk sequencing then it is expected that work which is normally IPS and prepped in your office at 0600 will now be run of the machines. All work on these machines have to have 3 passes and will if it works ( the millon dollar question ) will mean that your appox 40% of your work does not arrive in your office until after 8 and could be as late as 10 that work then has to be put into the frame ( it should be sequenced but will take time as the intial work you have already prepped is in your frames already.

So I already told you we have tried the luddite option dont work. Royal Mail have used government money (tax payers money on these machines and are not going to reduce their out put and savings protential to not run of a saturday. We have tried that option as well.

So over to you how do we square this circle. See its not as easy as just saying no. Very easy from the safety of your computer but not so rational when faced with the facts.

[Tman]

The super sorting machines cant get us out the door in time + Machine sorted mails are strewn with miss-sorts, they cost Millions..money better spent keeping people working and contributing to the economy anyways.

Come back Ned, your followers need you....

[dvbuk55]

Now Dvbuk you say it must have been easier to achieve agreement on processing and network. How wrong you are . All the strands are differcults in processing Royal Mail wanted the union to sign up to 50% less mail centres in line with the Hooper report , plus in network they want to outsource a lot of work , plus they wanted in all the operations strands to have a no strike clause in it.


I can't be that wrong - as you say the agreement for those disciplines is agreed in principle, deliveries is apparently a long way off - but as nothing is agreed until everything is agreed there can be no forward movement.

[The truth!]

Who said deliveries is a long way off ? It aint but two key issues need to be resovled to the unions satisfaction then we will decide if the benefits are worth the price for the changes we have agreed.

It could well be right that after all this the Price really is not right ? Intresting week ahead.

[GHOSTman]

Who said deliveries is a long way off ? It aint but two key issues need to be resovled to the unions satisfaction then we will decide if the benefits are worth the price for the changes we have agreed.

It could well be right that after all this the Price really is not right ? Intresting week ahead.

The Truth...Are you in a position to tell us what the two key issues are that are preventing an agreement being finalised?

[dvbuk55]

Who said deliveries is a long way off ? It aint but two key issues need to be resovled to the unions satisfaction then we will decide if the benefits are worth the price for the changes we have agreed.

It could well be right that after all this the Price really is not right ? Intresting week ahead.

Are to assume then by your statement we will have a decision to put it to the membership by next week? - we wouldn't want to disappoint the troops, again!