THERE IS NO AGREEMENT UNLESS WE VOTE YES

[Godric]

i will be voting NO to anything that increases the numbers of D2Ds or non payment for D2D deliveries, i would like to see the clowns advocating this try it, it is already a struggle to get 3 items delivered a week if the union wants to increase the numbers of D2Ds then maybe they should deliver them themselves

[mclovin]

I will vote no simply because I dont believe in anything that comes in from those at the top, its ALWAYS ill though out and damn near impossible.

[robd]

Harsh as it may sound,the reality is we will be forced to accept change,under the auspices of modernisation,or move on.

Agreed.

If the agreement is unacceptable send it back with a message to try again.

Correct,
but have the union actually taken on board members concerns?
As i said before,the job has become unbearable for most,and if you could walk into another job tomorrow,most if not
all of us would be gone.
the original poster said we should go back on strike,but this will not send the problems packing,a 3 1/2 hour delivery
is physical demanding,and for some impossible,yet the message from bob gibson is we should all take on longer dutys
and be grateful.
The one most important issue yet largely ignored is workload,an EVR exercise in our area,comes with strings attached,
the people who want to leave can go,but those that remain will have to take on their work,and we can barely manage as
it is.
i stress again,the original message was to the CWU we just want a fair and manageable workload,but i fear this doesn't
fit with RM's agenda.
So do i just accept the changes and be grateful or move on?

[mclovin]

No, stay and fight til the death.

[jaja]

yet the message from bob gibson is we should all take on longer dutys
and be grateful.

I wonder if Mr Gibson would take on a longer duty and be grateful ?, I doub't it ,he wants to get in the real world, instead of sitting behind his desk in his nice warm office deciding what we can and can not do...I bet he's never done an honest days work in his life :mfo :cfo :lfo can we have one of these for him the wonker


it pisses me off, these pen pushers planning our working lifes for us

[mailman71]

royal mail and the union can come out with any agreement they want but if the duties are'nt workable in the time factor then they wont get done.
we had executive action forced on us last may and our office is a bloody shambles with packets all over the place,guys cutting of every day,managers going out with deliveries every day but will royal mail admit they got it wrong will they hell.
we even had that panorama programme showing the royal marine jogging to finish a round which the postie could'nt but even thisdid'nt bring royal mail chiefs to their senses.
if they want to give us d2d's every day then the pegasus machine will have to replot the deliveries,they said we do 86% OF OUR CALLS EVERY DAY so if they want us to do 100% then the walks will have to be reduced by at least 20%.
at the end of the day i dont work past my time so they can give me as much as they want but if i dont have time to finish it gets brought back.

[fishtank]

royal mail and the union can come out with any agreement they want but if the duties are'nt workable in the time factor then they wont get done.
we had executive action forced on us last may and our office is a bloody shambles with packets all over the place,guys cutting of every day,managers going out with deliveries every day but will royal mail admit they got it wrong will they hell.
we even had that panorama programme showing the royal marine jogging to finish a round which the postie could'nt but even thisdid'nt bring royal mail chiefs to their senses.
if they want to give us d2d's every day then the pegasus machine will have to replot the deliveries,they said we do 86% OF OUR CALLS EVERY DAY so if they want us to do 100% then the walks will have to be reduced by at least 20%.
at the end of the day i dont work past my time so they can give me as much as they want but if i dont have time to finish it gets brought back.

Increased D2D will NOT result in a 100% call rate you will simply take 5 or 6 or whatever out 20% per day.

[PostieWithTheMostie!]

quote="robd"]
take d2d's, at the moment we are paid separately for delivering them,but the business would like us to absorb them at no cost,the union appear to be arguing for a supplemental payment.
the argument will be,we were going to lose payment for them,but the union have got us say £500 per year,when infact we are currently earning twice that amount....

You must have an easy round because my D2D's over the year will earn me £1500.. So RM will have to come up with a juicy ' MEGA ' Golden Carrot to temp me even into taking it or they'll be getting told i'll just keep doing my D2D's and you's can just keep paying me weekly for them.

[dayjur]

quote="robd"]
take d2d's, at the moment we are paid separately for delivering them,but the business would like us to absorb them at no cost,the union appear to be arguing for a supplemental payment.
the argument will be,we were going to lose payment for them,but the union have got us say £500 per year,when infact we are currently earning twice that amount....

You must have an easy round because my D2D's over the year will earn me £1500.. So RM will have to come up with a juicy ' MEGA ' Golden Carrot to temp me even into taking it or they'll be getting told i'll just keep doing my D2D's and you's can just keep paying me weekly for them.

Mine comes to £1500/yr,totally agree it would have to be a massive deal to tempt me.
D2D payments have stalled at 1.67p per item for the last 10 years , even Eastern Europeans earn more than us delivering leaflets.

[mailman71]

royal mail and the union can come out with any agreement they want but if the duties are'nt workable in the time factor then they wont get done.
we had executive action forced on us last may and our office is a bloody shambles with packets all over the place,guys cutting of every day,managers going out with deliveries every day but will royal mail admit they got it wrong will they hell.
we even had that panorama programme showing the royal marine jogging to finish a round which the postie could'nt but even thisdid'nt bring royal mail chiefs to their senses.
if they want to give us d2d's every day then the pegasus machine will have to replot the deliveries,they said we do 86% OF OUR CALLS EVERY DAY so if they want us to do 100% then the walks will have to be reduced by at least 20%.
at the end of the day i dont work past my time so they can give me as much as they want but if i dont have time to finish it gets brought back.

Increased D2D will NOT result in a 100% call rate you will simply take 5 or 6 or whatever out 20% per day.

tthis will not be the case,if you do 1 per day it will save time prepping,this is the logic we are fighting against.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Harsh as it may sound,the reality is we will be forced to accept change,under the auspices of modernisation,or move on.

Agreed.

Of course we have to accept change,that was never in question.
But that does not mean we should lie down meekly and accept anything that is thrown at us..
It is how that change is negotiated and what our limits both physical and financial are that is important.
If the job becomes unbearable that neither helps the union nor Royal Mail.
If the agreement is unacceptable send it back with a message to try again.

Agreed and seconded - can we move the motion

[clashcityrocker]

If the agreement is unacceptable send it back with a message to try again.

Of course the agreement will be unacceptable.
We are not going to come out of it very well financially. (maybe in the very short term - who knows)
We are going to lose tens of thousands of jobs.
We are going to have to work harder,longer,smarter.
The daily grind will be intolerable for some, maybe most.
I don't think there is a willingness within either the mangement or the hierarchy of the CWU to try again.
And I doubt if the CWU wants to lead us into more strike action.
So what do we do if we don't like the deal? Our only choice (IMHO) is to accept it and then begin a guerrilla war to render certain aspects of it unworkable.
To do that you need a united workforce, and realistically that umbrella of unity can only be the CWU.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

If the agreement is unacceptable send it back with a message to try again.

Of course the agreement will be unacceptable.
We are not going to come out of it very well financially. (maybe in the very short term - who knows)
We are going to lose tens of thousands of jobs.
We are going to have to work harder,longer,smarter.
The daily grind will be intolerable for some, maybe most.
I don't think there is a willingness within either the mangement or the hierarchy of the CWU to try again.
And I doubt if the CWU wants to lead us into more strike action.
So what do we do if we don't like the deal? Our only choice (IMHO) is to accept it and then begin a guerrilla war to render certain aspects of it unworkable.
To do that you need a united workforce, and realistically that umbrella of unity can only be the CWU.

Sorry to point out the flaw in your argument but if we accept the agreement, good or bad, then we will be unable to mount a "guerilla war" against the parts we don't accept, with a united workforce because we won't be united. We will be isolated as units and Royal Mail will do as they did after P&M2007, pick us off 1 by 1.

If this agreement is good I will vote Yes for it. It its a bad one I will vote against it. Any other tactic, or strategy is bound to fail and I would certainly not recommend it.

[mclovin]

From what I hear the CWU has already told RM if they put out to vote on what they currently have ie Later starts, d2d cap removed, 3pm finishes including saturday etc, then a no vote WILL be returned, so it will be a pointless exercise.

And thats why theyve extended the talks, and they are as far away from agreeing anything as they were 2 month ago.

[clashcityrocker]

There is no flaw in the argument.
It is precisely because we will be isolated in little pockets that we will have to revert to "guerrilla" tactics as opposed to conventional industrial warfare (strike action).We need unity in those isolated pockets.
It may well be doomed to failure - but so is a no vote.