Park and loop...

[fishtank]

“The truth is rarely pure and never simple.” Oscar Wilde

Do you think the guidelines, duty allocation and all the other attributes can be applied retrospectively dvb.

[dvbuk55]

“The truth is rarely pure and never simple.” Oscar Wilde

Do you think the guidelines, duty allocation and all the other attributes can be applied retrospectively dvb.

Yes of course under the interim agreement all things were negotiable, imposed by EA - err - oh no that was for 2009 and this was imposed in 2008!

It really highlights the dangers of local negotiation - this was supposed to be a 10 week trial, which if successful, would have triggered a resign - well it's marginal and the resign? - still waiting and the good news - the 14 park and loops meant the loss of 5 bulk duties to utilise those vehicles for the 14 park and loop duties - even better news - the park and loop is to be extended, which will mean the loss of more duties - why? because the cost is to be self financing in part and so vehicles will be removed from a duty which will then be incorporated. Oh yes there is a price to pay - so be well aware of what is at stake when negotiating locally.

[Puppetmaster]

We all know that sooner or later massive amounts are going to be added to our rounds.

RM have invested a great deal of time and money in a Computer programme to get it right.
The theory side has all been tested and work like clock work.


If you were launching a new product or service,having done all the theory wich all worked ok ,would you go live with it straight the way ,or test it in real life by the devolopers.

I have one Question for RM,before any body says it wont work or any thing like it ,be fair,get the planning Dept staff who have put these new rounds together and say they can be done,to prove it.

Why cannot the Planning staff come and show us how to do these rounds on a average day,From Start of SHIFT TO FINNISH THE WHOLE THING !
If the planning guys can do these rounds on time ,their should be no issues.

Or even better Idea A very fair deal ,in favour of RM get A ROYAL MARINE fitness instructor to do a proper round with ALL THE MAIL PACKETS AN SIGNATURES etc.
Surley a Royal Marine fitness instructor would be able to complete these walks easly and on time without running or would they ?

Another Idea gett Bill or Dave from the CWU to show us how ??

[GHOSTman]

2. People covered by the DDA should be offered suitable duties as a priority in the process of the re-pick

Can anyone tell me what DDA stands for?

[gj1023]

DDA = Disablity Discrimination Act

[GHOSTman]

DDA = Disablity Discrimination Act

Thanks, that's cleared that one up.

[dblad]

It's also another way of getting rid of more staff, no need for the van driver now as all parcels and specials are delivered by the posties.

[NewPostieUK]

Say you work 6 hrs a day now. You prep and deliver, including small packets. A driver takes your larger packets. With park and loop, you are going to be doing larger packets aswell. How? Where does the extra time come from? How is the fact that you have a van for half a shift going to magic up the extra time it takes you to do the packets?

[fishtank]

Say you work 6 hrs a day now. You prep and deliver, including small packets. A driver takes your larger packets. With park and loop, you are going to be doing larger packets aswell. How? Where does the extra time come from? How is the fact that you have a van for half a shift going to magic up the extra time it takes you to do the packets?

The extra time comes from less prep because everybody knows sequenced mail preps itself.

[jockstrapp]

Manager threw out park and loop almost a year ago because "IT DIDN'T WORK" Hope they bring it back though because it was MASSIVE cut offs everyday

[GHOSTman]

can anyone who currently does park and loop confirm the rumour that you also have to do collections from post boxes on your delivery?

[dvbuk55]

can anyone who currently does park and loop confirm the rumour that you also have to do collections from post boxes on your delivery?

Well yes it is true to some extent but out of 14 Park and Loop teams only 2 do collections at present because of the time constraints and the fact that there are rural van duties in the area but if the delivery times are pushed back to a later time then it is possible that more collections would fall within their duty span.

[GHOSTman]

The lino has started having everyone in to discuss their walks in our office, now I know why they were so keen to find out the right location of all post boxes on your delivery!

[Big Daz]

Its gonna happen my DOM has even been given a date for a delivery methods revision to happen which is week 25 of the new financial year.


It just a matter of crossing the T's and dotting the i's via a yes vote in a national agreement. Going by the posts from Dingo and his regeneration The Truth, the CWU and RML have reached agreement on how park and loop will work.

[Big Daz]

LTB 386/09 - Royal Mail Delivery Methods - CDV / Shared Vans
To view this download, please click here

No. 386/09
Ref: 540
Date: 30/04/2009
To: Branches with POSTAL Members

Dear Colleague

Royal Mail Delivery Methods - CDV / Shared Vans
We have previously put advice out to the field but in view of the number of enquiries being received in the outdoor department it was felt pertinent to restate our position on shared / car derived vans.

In terms of our overall position - We have no in principle objection to the concept, in fact we view it as a method which has the potential to resolve a number of long standing problems, particularly those associated with weight on delivery.

However, we are absolutely clear that deployment must be by way of an agreement.

We were engaged in discussions with Royal Mail on this subject last year. We did in fact reach a point where we had a negotiators agreement on a set of planning guidelines. This would have enabled deployment in a safe, pragmatic and sensible manner. Unfortunately, when the document went to the decision makers within Royal Mail the progress we had made came to a grinding halt.

It would seem that this issue, along with many others, has fallen victim to the Royal Mail dogma which views agreements as a bad thing.

Since then, despite our repeated requests, it would seem that management have attempted to push ahead without the CWU.

The advice therefore is to handle the issue through the IR Framework using the disagreement process when necessary. Additionally, neither H&S reps nor IR reps should work on this issue in isolation. There is clearly an overlap and in view of that delivery reps and ASR's should work together on this issue.

Further to that, some of the reports we are receiving indicate an approach which is at complete odds to the position taken by Royal Mail during our negotiations.

We have had reports of existing walks bolted together and a van supplied. In some cases the loops are pretty much the whole walk and the van effectively becomes a pouch box on wheels. This is clearly unacceptable. To use this method properly requires an element of detailed planning especially on the loops to be employed. The whole purpose of shared vans is to reduce weight over the shoulder and loops should be as short as reasonably possible.

We have had other reports of all manner of vehicles being used. During our negotiations it was agreed that vehicles with a sliding side door was by far the safest and most preferred vehicle design. In addition all vehicles should have panelled or "blacked out" rear windows and a partitioning bulkhead between the load and passenger carrying areas is an absolute must.

In some areas managers are attempting to use the change in delivery method to bring in longer delivery spans. We would remind branches that the nationally agreed span is 3.5 hours and there is no current agreement to change that.

Finally, whilst we had concluded a planning document we did not have time to cover other areas such guidance for resigns, what to do when an individual no longer wishes / is no longer able to drive etc. We did however agree across the table that holding a driving licence would not be a mandatory requirement when recruiting.

In summary - there is no national agreement in place on this issue but we wish to conclude one.
I hope this information is of use to branches.

Any enquiries to Bob Gibson's Office, quoting reference 540.
Email address: hnutley@cwu.org

Yours sincerely


Noel McClean

Acting Assistant Secretary