Agreement to extend national talks

[vanman]

Fair comment about having a say - I'm all for that.

My point about speculating is that, as we know, any final agreement will cover all sorts of issues and has to be viewed as such.

If we were only dealing with one issue then the pro's and con's would be clear. The bigger the number of issues - the greater the trade off will be from one to the other. It's all about if the price is right.

For example will we agree to CDV's if there is a payment for it, or a SWW, or a bonus, etc. etc.

The problem is we don't know what is being discussed in these talks about improved pay, benefits, etc.

Without seeing the full picture, good and bad, we are only still speculating and are in danger of people pre-judging the outcome as a result.

15 days and counting!

[clashcityrocker]

When talking about park and loop I get the impression you all assume it is two to a van.Apparently in some areas they have trialled three to a van and our DOM has been heard muttering that this is the way we will go.Would help out the non-drivers if nothing else.

[fishtank]

Fair comment about having a say - I'm all for that.

My point about speculating is that, as we know, any final agreement will cover all sorts of issues and has to be viewed as such.

If we were only dealing with one issue then the pro's and con's would be clear. The bigger the number of issues - the greater the trade off will be from one to the other. It's all about if the price is right.

For example will we agree to CDV's if there is a payment for it, or a SWW, or a bonus, etc. etc.

The problem is we don't know what is being discussed in these talks about improved pay, benefits, etc.

Without seeing the full picture, good and bad, we are only still speculating and are in danger of people pre-judging the outcome as a result.

15 days and counting!

I'm sorry vanman but i'm just not a "price is right" kind of guy.
I have seen too many deals over the years where working conditions have been "sold",only for the bitching to start when the money is spent.
TBH i'm not that interested in the "reward package".
I would far prefer a job with a managable workload which i can see myself continuing up until retirement age.
Not one that forces people out the door because they are not professional athletes.

[eian687]

When talking about park and loop I get the impression you all assume it is two to a van.Apparently in some areas they have trialled three to a van and our DOM has been heard muttering that this is the way we will go.Would help out the non-drivers if nothing else.

if driving is not shared between the 2 then driving allowances should be brought back

[AnotherLimey]

Fair comment about having a say - I'm all for that.

My point about speculating is that, as we know, any final agreement will cover all sorts of issues and has to be viewed as such.

If we were only dealing with one issue then the pro's and con's would be clear. The bigger the number of issues - the greater the trade off will be from one to the other. It's all about if the price is right.

For example will we agree to CDV's if there is a payment for it, or a SWW, or a bonus, etc. etc.

The problem is we don't know what is being discussed in these talks about improved pay, benefits, etc.

Without seeing the full picture, good and bad, we are only still speculating and are in danger of people pre-judging the outcome as a result.

15 days and counting!

I'm sorry vanman but i'm just not a "price is right" kind of guy.
I have seen too many deals over the years where working conditions have been "sold",only for the bitching to start when the money is spent.
TBH i'm not that interested in the "reward package".
I would far prefer a job with a managable workload which i can see myself continuing up until retirement age.
Not one that forces people out the door because they are not professional athletes.

Spot on Fish

[dvbuk55]

Fair comment about having a say - I'm all for that.

My point about speculating is that, as we know, any final agreement will cover all sorts of issues and has to be viewed as such.

If we were only dealing with one issue then the pro's and con's would be clear. The bigger the number of issues - the greater the trade off will be from one to the other. It's all about if the price is right.

For example will we agree to CDV's if there is a payment for it, or a SWW, or a bonus, etc. etc.

The problem is we don't know what is being discussed in these talks about improved pay, benefits, etc.

Without seeing the full picture, good and bad, we are only still speculating and are in danger of people pre-judging the outcome as a result.

15 days and counting!

I don't think there is going to be an agreement in 15 days time.

When you take a look at dingos previous post and the number of issues that are up for discussion - which if my memory serves me, didn't include the rewards package,it is a tall order for any negotiators.

So you inadvertently raise a valid point, which is, should we see step by step what has been decided jointly, in principle, rather than have to wade through a whole host of issues in one go. It would be far easier to seperate the wheat from the chaff dealing with each issue as it is struck off the list, so to speak.

[Big Daz]

Im not happy with the way the CWU let RP set the communcations agenda for these talks, not so long ago it was communcations left right and centre when they wanted a yes vote for strikes but now virtual silence and certainly no home postings to keep mmebers up to date.


Whatever the merits or otherwise may be of any final agreement the communcations are s**t!!!

[fishtank]

dvbuk wrote
"It would be far easier to seperate the wheat from the chaff dealing with each issue as it is struck off the list, so to speak."



Yes dvb, but if you have something to hide better to have as much chaff as you can find.

[not me]

Back to the thread.....
All change is difficult.Not everything will be bad but it may take some time to see the positive aspects.
Getting the weight off our backs will be one
And seeing duties where neither postie has a driving licence will be another.(I bet this happens and we should have a prize for the first person who reports it)
But if the figure of 25% using bikes is accurate I can't see any of them voting in this agreement.
There may be a long way to go.

what happens is the duties are picked on seniority
if a non driver picks a duty then the partner duty can only be picked by a driver

thing is for the right duties park &loop is great
park the van,do a loop with a bundle,move on a bit and repeat
however there are many duties(like my own) where the van is no help
so you get a bigger duty and no benefit from the van

[clashcityrocker]

Back to the thread.....
All change is difficult.Not everything will be bad but it may take some time to see the positive aspects.
Getting the weight off our backs will be one
And seeing duties where neither postie has a driving licence will be another.(I bet this happens and we should have a prize for the first person who reports it)
But if the figure of 25% using bikes is accurate I can't see any of them voting in this agreement.
There may be a long way to go.

what happens is the duties are picked on seniority
if a non driver picks a duty then the partner duty can only be picked by a driver

What I meant was I bet RM do this because they always f**k up like no-one else can.I am sure they will get it right at the resign.
But what about changing floaters duties,covering sickness etc.I don't believe they will always attach a driver to a duty that requires a driver because they are stupid.

[dvbuk55]

dvbuk wrote
"It would be far easier to seperate the wheat from the chaff dealing with each issue as it is struck off the list, so to speak."



Yes dvb, but if you have something to hide better to have as much chaff as you can find.

You old cynic! More seriously though this agreement is going to be like the Encyclopedia Royal Mailicus with all the issues that need to be covered. Lets just hope it is couched in terms that we can understand

[clashcityrocker]

You old cynic! More seriously though this agreement is going to be like the Encyclopedia Royal Mailicus with all the issues that need to be covered. Lets just hope it is couched in terms that we can understand

Let's hope there are lots of pictures then.

[fishtank]

dvbuk wrote
"It would be far easier to seperate the wheat from the chaff dealing with each issue as it is struck off the list, so to speak."



Yes dvb, but if you have something to hide better to have as much chaff as you can find.

You old cynic! More seriously though this agreement is going to be like the Encyclopedia Royal Mailicus with all the issues that need to be covered. Lets just hope it is couched in terms that we can understand

Perhaps if it takes us longer than we imagine to read through it we could announce an "Agreement to extend the reading of the national agreement"
I was thinking maybe an extra month or so.......

[dvbuk55]

You old cynic! More seriously though this agreement is going to be like the Encyclopedia Royal Mailicus with all the issues that need to be covered. Lets just hope it is couched in terms that we can understand

Let's hope there are lots of pictures then.

Do you know something ccr - that has just given me an idea of how to focus the troops on the issues at hand. What we need is a sort of page 3 format for the individual issues - the PEC and the leading negotiators do a sort of risque calendar shoot with the salient points for which they have been responsible held in strategic positions; feel sorry for the bloke who got the rewards issue - unless he hasn't a lot to show.

[snoddy]

it doesnt really matter what any new national agreement says, RM will only make their own interpretation. anything of benefit to the rank and file members will be ignored.
issues sent up the line to the area reps (who are by and large lazy careerists) will be sent back to local level for discussion at "resource meetings", and we all know these are a total sham.