Agreement to extend national talks

[smokerjim]

those bowls have a better life than the one on your head, DVB

[clashcityrocker]

Back to the thread.....
All change is difficult.Not everything will be bad but it may take some time to see the positive aspects.
Getting the weight off our backs will be one
And seeing duties where neither postie has a driving licence will be another.(I bet this happens and we should have a prize for the first person who reports it)
But if the figure of 25% using bikes is accurate I can't see any of them voting in this agreement.
There may be a long way to go.

[phantomshare]

Were talks resumed today?

[bexhil palace]

Dingo, could you please clarify something for me.
If there are to be an increase in D2D's,possibly one a day, does that mean we will be expected to deliver to every address, every day?
If so surely any pegasus/Geo Route calculations would need to be reveiwed, for example our calculations were set at approx 80% call rate.
Would it not be the case that all call rates should be set at 100%?

[dvbuk55]

those bowls have a better life than the one on your head, DVB

If I take the bowl off smoker the astral voices tell me to do all sorts of things

[Martin Walsh]

Talks did resume today.

Wrangled I wont spend much time on this but central billing is an agreement between Royal Mail and the CWU whereby Royal Mail pay the reps wages direct but charge the Union for the coverage of the duty whatever measure that is by.

Now Divisonal Reps are paid by Royal Mail and are subject to a variation of contract. Area reps are also paid by Royal Mail. But if everyone who was paid by Royal Mail were in Royal Mails pockets why do we have most disputes of any union in the uk ? and why are posters on here so critical of Royal Mail surely they are paid by Royal Mail and must be in their pocket. You couldt make it up. Fact is whether reps are paid by the CWU or Royal Mail is ilrevalant it is your deeds that count , the members and branch"s decide via the ballot box on that count.

Now before people say things like its a sell out etc.Please consider this !!!!

Royal Mail want to change a workplan its what underpins their whole modensation plan. Tell me when has the CWU ever had a veto over changes to workplans ? We have never. what we do negotiate on is the implications of that change.

Royal Mail want to invest in Car derived vans not the CWU. Tell me when did we have a vote on having bikes on delivery or having golf trolleys or High capiticity trolleys or any other equipment. I have been in the job for 26 years and we have never had a vote on equipment which Royal Mail invest in. The only time we have a vote is when the implications of that equipment effects earning or jobs.

But with regards to Car derived vans there are a whole host of issues which need to be resolved but if Royal Mail install them in an office and say that in future that is going to be the mode of delivery , as private cars are banned , bikes are banned what is the union meant to do organise a strike against the investment which Health and Saftey advice encourages and bans the use of private cars a long time aim of the cwu. It is unsustainable believe me we have tried it in Wimbledon this year and members refused to drive and be trained on them and were taken off pay and then threatened with conduct code. Regardless of how strong a union office is it does change things once members are threatened with the conduct code.

Now Dvbuk with regards to what benefits are being discussed I think we all know what issues are being discussed , the details cannot be revealed on here for obvious reasons.

Now I accept everyone is frustrated at the lack of detal, but if Roger Poole and ACAS have demanded confidentiality by both sides then would it be the right strategy for the CWU to break that by communicating what has been discussed bearing in mind that nothing is agreed until everythings agreed.


Maybe I am flogging a dead horse but if the CWU really wanted to sell out the members then they would have not had the dispute in the first place and just allowed Royal Mail to impose change on the workplace without any safeguards or any benefits.

The CWU want the right agreement , but are facing some of the biggest challenges ever be that though the workplan changes , automation , dropping workload in mail centres through one outward plan and DSA , the delivery model or the threat of contracting out services in network.

People should wait to make judgements , perhaps some think the union should be asking for no change and increase in pay. Of course those on the sidelines who claim this have no responsibilty to the whole membership and are not faced with the challenges which those in the talks are face with.
I

[Martin Walsh]

Bexhill worth a try but I think you will find that Royal Mail will argue if you have 5 door to door items per week that you could deliver all 5 items to 20% of the addresses for the each day rather than one item per day.

[fishtank]

Bexhill worth a try but I think you will find that Royal Mail will argue if you have 5 door to door items per week that you could deliver all 5 items to 20% of the addresses for the each day rather than one item per day.

And then we're back to double slots and 10 D2D items in a slot........
And the multitude of other deployment wrinkles that will have to be ironed out...at local level...by the local rep...if there is one......

[dvbuk55]

Talks did resume today.

Wrangled I wont spend much time on this but central billing is an agreement between Royal Mail and the CWU whereby Royal Mail pay the reps wages direct but charge the Union for the coverage of the duty whatever measure that is by.

Now Divisonal Reps are paid by Royal Mail and are subject to a variation of contract. Area reps are also paid by Royal Mail. But if everyone who was paid by Royal Mail were in Royal Mails pockets why do we have most disputes of any union in the uk ? and why are posters on here so critical of Royal Mail surely they are paid by Royal Mail and must be in their pocket. You couldt make it up. Fact is whether reps are paid by the CWU or Royal Mail is ilrevalant it is your deeds that count , the members and branch"s decide via the ballot box on that count.

Now before people say things like its a sell out etc.Please consider this !!!!

Royal Mail want to change a workplan its what underpins their whole modensation plan. Tell me when has the CWU ever had a veto over changes to workplans ? We have never. what we do negotiate on is the implications of that change.

Royal Mail want to invest in Car derived vans not the CWU. Tell me when did we have a vote on having bikes on delivery or having golf trolleys or High capiticity trolleys or any other equipment. I have been in the job for 26 years and we have never had a vote on equipment which Royal Mail invest in. The only time we have a vote is when the implications of that equipment effects earning or jobs.

But with regards to Car derived vans there are a whole host of issues which need to be resolved but if Royal Mail install them in an office and say that in future that is going to be the mode of delivery , as private cars are banned , bikes are banned what is the union meant to do organise a strike against the investment which Health and Saftey advice encourages and bans the use of private cars a long time aim of the cwu. It is unsustainable believe me we have tried it in Wimbledon this year and members refused to drive and be trained on them and were taken off pay and then threatened with conduct code. Regardless of how strong a union office is it does change things once members are threatened with the conduct code.

Now Dvbuk with regards to what benefits are being discussed I think we all know what issues are being discussed , the details cannot be revealed on here for obvious reasons.

Now I accept everyone is frustrated at the lack of detal, but if Roger Poole and ACAS have demanded confidentiality by both sides then would it be the right strategy for the CWU to break that by communicating what has been discussed bearing in mind that nothing is agreed until everythings agreed.


Maybe I am flogging a dead horse but if the CWU really wanted to sell out the members then they would have not had the dispute in the first place and just allowed Royal Mail to impose change on the workplace without any safeguards or any benefits.

The CWU want the right agreement , but are facing some of the biggest challenges ever be that though the workplan changes , automation , dropping workload in mail centres through one outward plan and DSA , the delivery model or the threat of contracting out services in network.

People should wait to make judgements , perhaps some think the union should be asking for no change and increase in pay. Of course those on the sidelines who claim this have no responsibilty to the whole membership and are not faced with the challenges which those in the talks are face with.
I

I shudder every time I read one of your posts.

What are we to do when RM want to impose work plans, when they purchase vehicles, when they want to impose longer duties - well judging from your post dingo - nothing! We went on strike to negotiate these changes.

vlcsnap-2009-11-08-19h04m13s11.png

[AnotherLimey]

Talks did resume today.

Wrangled I wont spend much time on this but central billing is an agreement between Royal Mail and the CWU whereby Royal Mail pay the reps wages direct but charge the Union for the coverage of the duty whatever measure that is by.

Now Divisonal Reps are paid by Royal Mail and are subject to a variation of contract. Area reps are also paid by Royal Mail. But if everyone who was paid by Royal Mail were in Royal Mails pockets why do we have most disputes of any union in the uk ? and why are posters on here so critical of Royal Mail surely they are paid by Royal Mail and must be in their pocket. You couldt make it up. Fact is whether reps are paid by the CWU or Royal Mail is ilrevalant it is your deeds that count , the members and branch"s decide via the ballot box on that count.

Now before people say things like its a sell out etc.Please consider this !!!!

Royal Mail want to change a workplan its what underpins their whole modensation plan. Tell me when has the CWU ever had a veto over changes to workplans ? We have never. what we do negotiate on is the implications of that change.

Royal Mail want to invest in Car derived vans not the CWU. Tell me when did we have a vote on having bikes on delivery or having golf trolleys or High capiticity trolleys or any other equipment. I have been in the job for 26 years and we have never had a vote on equipment which Royal Mail invest in. The only time we have a vote is when the implications of that equipment effects earning or jobs.

But with regards to Car derived vans there are a whole host of issues which need to be resolved but if Royal Mail install them in an office and say that in future that is going to be the mode of delivery , as private cars are banned , bikes are banned what is the union meant to do organise a strike against the investment which Health and Saftey advice encourages and bans the use of private cars a long time aim of the cwu. It is unsustainable believe me we have tried it in Wimbledon this year and members refused to drive and be trained on them and were taken off pay and then threatened with conduct code. Regardless of how strong a union office is it does change things once members are threatened with the conduct code.

Now Dvbuk with regards to what benefits are being discussed I think we all know what issues are being discussed , the details cannot be revealed on here for obvious reasons.

Now I accept everyone is frustrated at the lack of detal, but if Roger Poole and ACAS have demanded confidentiality by both sides then would it be the right strategy for the CWU to break that by communicating what has been discussed bearing in mind that nothing is agreed until everythings agreed.


Maybe I am flogging a dead horse but if the CWU really wanted to sell out the members then they would have not had the dispute in the first place and just allowed Royal Mail to impose change on the workplace without any safeguards or any benefits.

The CWU want the right agreement , but are facing some of the biggest challenges ever be that though the workplan changes , automation , dropping workload in mail centres through one outward plan and DSA , the delivery model or the threat of contracting out services in network.

People should wait to make judgements , perhaps some think the union should be asking for no change and increase in pay. Of course those on the sidelines who claim this have no responsibilty to the whole membership and are not faced with the challenges which those in the talks are face with.
I

I shudder every time I read one of your posts.

What are we to do when RM want to impose work plans, when they purchase vehicles, when they want to impose longer duties - well judging from your post dingo - nothing! We went on strike to negotiate these changes.

I think Dingo makes fair points and people here are jumping the gun a little, Lets see the final agreement before we linch Dingo eh?

[bogstandard]

ok then Dingo, if i were to assime you possibly had the ear of our negotiators how about we mention the 2 weeks to identify Mr Poole, i'm not angry, i'm disappointed. Should an agreement be reached how about an agreement that is transparent, without any grey areas. Or is it more likley an agreement that is wishy washy with more interpretations than the U.N.
I find it impossible to believe that the issue that arose in London wasn't foreseen by HQ, given the statements HQ themselves made to the national media and the problems that must have been arising daily at HQ (once the ballot was announced), due to mangerial re-interpretation of what exactly constitutes and defines the telling of the truth. It didn't have to be London, it just turned out to be London. I can understand why the business chose to alienate London further by these actions.

i'm sure our negotiators go out and put themselves in uncomfortable positions with the membership in their spare time, as do i

[vanman]

I shudder every time I read one of your posts.

What are we to do when RM want to impose work plans, when they purchase vehicles, when they want to impose longer duties - well judging from your post dingo - nothing! We went on strike to negotiate these changes.

vlcsnap-2009-11-08-19h04m13s11.png

Forgive me if I'm missing something here - but I thought that Dingo was giving us his update on the NEGOTIATIONS.

What do you think has been happening for all these weeks - of course the Union is negotiating.

As always - negotiating is a matter of give and take- Anyone who thinks that we can stop change and carry on as before is living in cloud cuckoo land!

We can speculate as much as we like on bits of any agreement - why not wait to see the whole thing.

Roll on the 22nd! (or 23rd....)

[fishtank]

Vanman,No-one believes they can stop change nor would we want to.
But change must be negotiated and it is important that those who negotiate on our behalf are aware of the feelings of the membership.
None of the subjects being debated here are pure speculation.
CDVs,D2D into workload,longer and later saturdays,longer delivery spans and a new IR/EA agreement WILL be part of this agreement.
We have a unique position here of at least putting some opinions out there.Many of those involved are visitors to this site.
Whether anyone pays any attention is entirely up to them.
Simply waiting until the agreement lands in your lap is in my opinion short-sighted.
I believe it is HQs opinion that the agreement reached will be accepted no matter what.
Let us at least try to have some influence on the decisions being made on our behalf.
None of this is personal and i'm sure dingo is well aware of that.

[chickenwittle]

on whats happening regarding where we are going with the talks between union and rm its gone very quiet lately isnt there a date set that this has to be resolved by its dragging on a bit now

[hubbahubba]

on whats happening regarding where we are going with the talks between union and rm its gone very quiet lately isnt there a date set that this has to be resolved by its dragging on a bit now

what about this years pay rise,while you youre at it?