Agreement to extend national talks

[AnotherLimey]

Fishtank there is an understanding on geo route which will become agreement if everything is agreed. With regards to Geo route underpinning the revison , well I think there are several things which will this time underpin any agreement on deliveries.

These are what will all focus a delivery revison.

1. A New Workplan which will decimate Mail centres and change when work arrives in DOs
2. Car Derived Vans for all walks more than a mile from the Delivery office which will effect leave options , resigns etc as walks will be paired up
3. Geo Route
4. Indoor standards
5. Door to Door being included in your normal workload
6. That delivery spans will be open to local agreement
7 The issue of later Saturday
8 Walk sequencing

Plus of course what benefits are incldued in any final deal.

I have a problem with 6&7 the rest i see sense in.

Feeling at our office is that our union is negotiating our conditions down instead of up. Has the union given up on trying to better our condotion now and concentrating it's effort's on damage control

[clashcityrocker]

"Fishtank there is an understanding on geo route which will become agreement if everything is agreed."

I understand you may not know or you may not wish to divulge it but are you aware of the agreed walking speed used for geo-route?

Did you not watch Usain Bolt win the Olympics? My guess is that is about the average speed we will be expected to achieve.

[Big Daz]

At my D.O due to a CWU area agreed terms of reference for the entire PE and CB postcode areas we mitigated the walking speed with a delivery span of 3.15

[fishtank]

At my D.O due to a CWU area agreed terms of reference for the entire PE and CB postcode areas we mitigated the walking speed with a delivery span of 3.15

I don't think that span will be sustainable now Daz unless you have a very high pt/ft ratio.

[Big Daz]

Thats true

With IPS being between 60 and 75 mins and dels being within 4 hours including travelling time, FT urban bike dels at my D.O are all going to have to change to become sustainable.

[pickaname]

I dont understand why theres a movement towards van sharing/park+loop based deliveries and away from bikes

Using an HCT will take much much longer the a bag on your shoulder. Theres other issues too such as one postie wanting to claim and the other cutting off and where to put it when delivering in flats.

How do the vans get loaded up and where are they all going to be parked?

I dont get it. We have a good system with the bikes. Why mess it up?

[Darren Bent]

I would thought it is good idea for royal mail to be more environmentally friendly as there is too many cars on duty and introducing van sharing stuff. What happens if Oil suddenly go up 75p a gallon over night. All the budget will be in trouble.

For voting, why not have online voting as well. It would stop people putting the card down and leave it for later and forgot to vote.

[fishtank]

I dont understand why theres a movement towards van sharing/park+loop based deliveries and away from bikes

Using an HCT will take much much longer the a bag on your shoulder. Theres other issues too such as one postie wanting to claim and the other cutting off and where to put it when delivering in flats.

How do the vans get loaded up and where are they all going to be parked?

I dont get it. We have a good system with the bikes. Why mess it up?

Only approx 25% of delivery staff use bikes.
The rest of the issues are all valid especially the fact that this new method may be less efficient.
Will RM accept the fact that this may cost money rather than save it.
I don't think so.
But all of these issues will be left to us at a local level.

[dvbuk55]

The anwser shall be revealed on the 22nd, unless we have another extension

I think the 22nd will be a revelation in the biblical sense, it will be far enough away from the recent IA to have allowed feelings to have cooled and there have been enough snippets to prepare us for the bad news.

[dvbuk55]

" Door to Door being included in your normal workload"

Dingo this is already part of the normal workload so do you mean the ceiling will be lifted and additional D2Ds will be part of the agreement.

[clashcityrocker]

Only approx 25% of delivery staff use bikes.
The rest of the issues are all valid especially the fact that this new method may be less efficient.
Will RM accept the fact that this may cost money rather than save it.
I don't think so.
But all of these issues will be left to us at a local level.

If the figure quoted elsewhere of 1 in 4 jobs going with the introduction of park and loop I don't think we can argue this is going to cost money.It may be environmentally unfriendly,it may be inefficient and we might not like it but even if it was 1 in 6 it will still save shitloads.But I don't see there being enough people volunteering for EVR.

[fishtank]

Only approx 25% of delivery staff use bikes.
The rest of the issues are all valid especially the fact that this new method may be less efficient.
Will RM accept the fact that this may cost money rather than save it.
I don't think so.
But all of these issues will be left to us at a local level.

If the figure quoted elsewhere of 1 in 4 jobs going with the introduction of park and loop I don't think we can argue this is going to cost money.It may be environmentally unfriendly,it may be inefficient and we might not like it but even if it was 1 in 6 it will still save shitloads.But I don't see there being enough people volunteering for EVR.

This is the issue ccr.
Based on the only "trial" i have seen.
It will take in my opinion 4hrs for 2 people to deliver two 3.30 walking deliveries using park&loop.
Now it's true that their may be some savings in packet deliveries but i don't think this is the level of savings RM are looking for.
What i think RM will do is promote unrealistic park&loop deliveries using pegasus/georoute.
If the union has agreed to the use of pegasus and the walkspeed there is not a lot we can do about it.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk your wrong door to door is done within worktime and you recieve a payment for this it is not part of your offices traffic and does not determine call rate or is it calculate in your prep figures. Once it is in workload then it will be included in all aspects of your revision and not just an add on.Yes the ceiling will be lifted and hopefully Royal Mail will be able to win more of the unaddressed items in a growing market.

I understand some dont like doing Door to Door but surely more work into workload is a good thing for protecting jobs.

Now with regards to Car derived vans (DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER ) This is Royal Mail plans and arguements. ( Not the CWU )

1. Deliveries within a mile from the office will be completed using a HCT , where the terain is steep then by a powered HCT.

2, Deliveries more than a mile from the office will be compeleted by two delivery employees using a car derived van with light weight trolleys.

3, Now Royal Mail belive ( wrongly in my opinion ) that car dervived vans do not require replensihment time as the van houses all the work and the only dead time is walking to the van.

4 That car dervived vans will remove any need for work to be carried on the shoulder so will reduce both fratigue and injuries and therefore assist in longer delivery spans.

5. That car derived vans will remove support duties ie any duties which accelates postman to delivery , repnishes them in pouch drops etc or that delivers packets and in some case small firm runs.

6 . That car derived vans remove any need for the use of private cars on delivery and that they be banned.

7 Dont laugh but Royal Mail say by introducing car derived vans they are accutually helping the enviorment by stopping the use of private cars on delivery.

8. Royal Mail car derived vans will reduce in car park space without Royal Mail premises as more vans will introduced.

9. Some people will be allowed to take home their van and use it to communite to and from work providing where they park the van overnight has been cleared by Royal Mail.

10 Royal Mail has 140 million to spend on car derived vans and intend intalling over 25000 into office over the next twelve months.

11. The introduction of car derived vans allow Royal Mail to enter into new products and services.

So you see the arguements are putting forward and the alledged investment they are committing.

[Big Daz]

dingo

Do you know if RML intend to convert bike based deliveries to HCT? I need no more than a total of 15 mins travelling time every day. That would extend if I had to walk and the actual delivery would extend by walking. Any time saving from sequenced mail would be wiped out

[fishtank]

dingo

Do you know if RML intend to convert bike based deliveries to HCT? I need no more than a total of 15 mins travelling time every day. That would extend if I had to walk and the actual delivery would extend by walking. Any time saving from sequenced mail would be wiped out

I think it may be as black and white as 1mile from the D.O Daz.