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Agreement to extend national talks

Latest Royal Mail and CWU news.This is an open forum.
Big Daz
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Joined: 17 Apr 2007, 20:27
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by Big Daz »

brothermagrew wrote:
Big Daz wrote:Great idea but are you willing to see it applied to IA ballots, we came close to dropping below 50% of ballots papers sent being returned as yes votes.

Turnout in all types of ballots needs improving, but how doe we achive it? :hmmmm
Perhaps brother Big Daz make it a pre-requisite that in being a member of the union that you must participate (vote) in any and all subsequent ballots.

Sounds good to me :Applause
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by dvbuk55 »

dingo wrote:Dvbuk You seem to have an habit of misquoting myself but hey who cares.

Your right there is no agreement at the moment. However if there is an eventual agreement what happens is the PEC first debate, amend and then vote on it. The Officers Billy Hayes , Dave Ward , Bob Gibson , Ray Ellis , Martin Collins , Terry Pullinger and Andy Furey do not have a vote on the Postal Executive. Instead the Chair Jane Loftus and Vice Chair Peter Donaghy along with the 13 Postal members and the two PTS members have the say on whether the agreement is accepted. Jane Loftus as the Chair has the opportunity to vote twice once as her right as a postal executive member and again if neccessairy as the casting vote as a chair.

Only if the majority of the Postal Exectuive vote for it will the agreement go to the members and only then will it say that the Postal Execuitve recommend it.

Like I said there is no agreement at the moment and therefore there is nothing to judge or slag off at the moment.
I don't misquote you dingo, you just do not choose your wording carefully enough and therefore the impression you give is not necessarily an accurate representation of the facts.
fishtank
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by fishtank »

dingo wrote
"However there will be a new industrial relations agreement which will put in measures to avoid both executive action and industrial action "
dingo wrote
"At the moment no one on here or outside the negotatiors has seen what has or what has not been agreed."

Rather contardictory posts don't you think.
It is you dingo who uses this site as a sounding board for what may or may not be in the agreement.
If you are now admitting that these are simply your opinions then that's fine.
Many members on this site assume by your use of language that you have some inside knowledge.
Maybe adding "In my opinion" at the start of each post may clear up any confusion.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Big Daz
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by Big Daz »

fishtank

I get the clear impression that dingo knows stuff/has inside knowledge as well.

dingo

If you can provide a greater level of clairty that would be great, keep those posts coming though!!!!
fishtank
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by fishtank »

Big Daz wrote:fishtank

I get the clear impression that dingo knows stuff/has inside knowledge as well.

dingo

If you can provide a greater level of clairty that would be great, keep those posts coming though!!!!


Yes Daz,I know he knows stuff.
But if he makes that information public on this site he cannot complain if members decide to " judge or slag off "that information.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Big Daz
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by Big Daz »

I know that you know, my point was that dingo's post lead me to having the same view of you, that being that dingo's posts can give the impression to those who read this site that he has inside knowledge with regards to the national discussions.

Apologies for not wording my post clearer.
fishtank
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by fishtank »

Big Daz wrote:I know that you know, my point was that dingo's post lead me to having the same view of you, that being that dingo's posts can give the impression to those who read this site that he has inside knowledge with regards to the national discussions.

Apologies for not wording my post clearer.

I know that you know that i know........ :chuckle :chuckle

Sorry Daz it was i who didn't read your post properly.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Martin Walsh
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by Martin Walsh »

For clairity i know some of whats being discssed in some strands of the talks but as stated they are different strands involving differnt officers of the union and different members of the PEC. For example there is the national officer for deliveries heading up the delivery strand supported by Noel McClean , Mark Baulch PEC members and Peter Sinnot Divisonal Rep and Paul Chapman Area Delivery Rep. That is just one strand.

At the moment there is the following stands

1. Delivery talks
2. mail Centres
3. Network
4. MTSF
5. Relationships/IR
6 Pay and Benefits
7 Deployment.

The fact is that not all the negotatiors are aware of all what has been disucssed in the different strands and their was an officers meeting today to share what progress and issues remain.

That is why I made the quote that not anyone other than the negotatiors know all the issues which have been discussed and whats been agreed in all the strands..

This site is often read by Dale Hannon and Peter Walls who front up the talks so sometimes you have to understand some of the quotes of those of us in the know make are based on that assumption..
johnnyp
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by johnnyp »

Once again thanks for all the info Dingo :Very Happy
fishtank
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by fishtank »

Does anyone know how close we are to an agreement on pegasus/georoute?
There would appear to be movement behind the scenes in many D.Os which would suggest that at least an "in principal" agreement has been reached.
Georoute underpins the majority of delivery changes planned for the next 18 months.
But as far as i know the unions position is still one of non-cooperation.

"GeoRoute’s optimization tools design routes that include as much delivery time as possible while respecting maximum workday durations. This typically translates into a reduced number of routes for any given area."
I can't see RM going along with this if it doesn't provide the savings promised.
But how does the union square this with protecting full-time jobs?
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Big Daz
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by Big Daz »

The anwser shall be revealed on the 22nd, unless we have another extension :whistle
Martin Walsh
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by Martin Walsh »

Fishtank there is an understanding on geo route which will become agreement if everything is agreed. With regards to Geo route underpinning the revison , well I think there are several things which will this time underpin any agreement on deliveries.

These are what will all focus a delivery revison.

1. A New Workplan which will decimate Mail centres and change when work arrives in DOs
2. Car Derived Vans for all walks more than a mile from the Delivery office which will effect leave options , resigns etc as walks will be paired up
3. Geo Route
4. Indoor standards
5. Door to Door being included in your normal workload
6. That delivery spans will be open to local agreement
7 The issue of later Saturday
8 Walk sequencing

Plus of course what benefits are incldued in any final deal.
lateagian
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by lateagian »

dingo wrote:Fishtank there is an understanding on geo route which will become agreement if everything is agreed. With regards to Geo route underpinning the revison , well I think there are several things which will this time underpin any agreement on deliveries.

These are what will all focus a delivery revison.

1. A New Workplan which will decimate Mail centres and change when work arrives in DOs
2. Car Derived Vans for all walks more than a mile from the Delivery office which will effect leave options , resigns etc as walks will be paired up
3. Geo Route
4. Indoor standards
5. Door to Door being included in your normal workload
6. That delivery spans will be open to local agreement
7 The issue of later Saturday
8 Walk sequencing

Plus of course what benefits are incldued in any final deal.
Feeling at our office is that our union is negotiating our conditions down instead of up. Has the union given up on trying to better our condotion now and concentrating it's effort's on damage control
fishtank
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Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by fishtank »

"Fishtank there is an understanding on geo route which will become agreement if everything is agreed."

I understand you may not know or you may not wish to divulge it but are you aware of the agreed walking speed used for geo-route?
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Martin Walsh
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Location: neverland

Re: Agreement to extend national talks

Post by Martin Walsh »

Not in the least the reason its taken so long is that the union is not accepting all of Royal Mail`s agenda. The problem is this with the issues being discussed :

Changes to workplans are not normally negotiatble as they are circulation changes. The introduction of car derived vans remove weight on the shoulder and ban the use of private cars on delivery.

An agreement on Geo route is a long standing policy , an agreement on standards will mean that managers cannot remove indivduals from pay for achieving unagreed standards made up by management and often unachievable. An agreement on Door to Door will protect full time jobs as unaddressed items is still growing and is a long standing policy of the CWU.

The delivery span being flexiable allows staff within an office to choose what spans suit staff and in fact they can have a`la carte of spans depending on how many full time jobs you wanted and this will vary when you eventually have walk sequencing.

The issue of later Saturdays is probably the hardest to tackle and will be very unpopular. However as the workplan and sequencing will run 6 days per week then Royal Mail want later saturdays. This will be the hardest issue to resolve and all the negotatiors are aware of this.

Now in terms of benefits there are a number which are being discussed, committment to maximising full time jobs in an automated enviorment should not be underestimated , A new improved pay package , shorter working week , a Door to Door payment paid 52 weeks per year , protenitally a new rate for working saturdays ( anyone remember saturday premium ) Job security plus a few more.

So the union is not in the market for any sell out. Of course members will come to their own conclusions on whether the deal if their is one , is good enough once they see the agreement. But remember deliveries is only one strand of a number which will make up any agreement.

Without doubt the negotations are tough because Royal Mail as everyone knows has an agenda too.