Are we low paid?

[krussel]

I shed the chips from my shoulders many years ago when I realised that all men put their pants on one leg at a time, that no one was superior to me and that I had no right to look down on anyone. We can't all be at the top of the food chain or the money mountain and I have already said we are reasonably paid for what we do. Both my children have university educations and their corresponding degrees which I never had the chance of or aspired to but I have my own paid for house and a comfortable existence - it's just a shame every 20 year old wants it all by the time they are 21.
.

Best statement so far and could not agree more

I dont know really we could all do with more but its more the physical side and lenght of deliveries and working conditions which i have issues with.

[spilie]

well once again rhino you prove my point, yes i have questions and yes i want answers, i am not satisfied with the way things are and i want them to be better, but if this means i have a chip then so be it, but as you have stated rhino you are all right jack and that is that so lets all continue to look after No1 and f**k the rest,and as for giving groups of people labels i am very proud to be labeled Working Class and am sorry if you were offended by my assumption that you were the same

[pickaname]

This thread is nuts!

Of course we are low paid/under paid.

Theres no way i can:

a) get a mortgage/save a deposit
b) start a family
c) learn to drive/get/run/maintain a car
d) think about savings
e) have a reasonable pension

on my basic take home wage of £272 per week. I dont have a luxurious lifestyle, I dont waste money and Im still pretty much broke every week once rent and bills have gone out. I think its true that living in the south of england puts people in a much tighter position than those in the north as its much more expensive.

It matters not whether the job is manual or unskilled. What matters is how important the job your doing is.

Shop workers are low paid because they are seeen as non essential positions.

Judging by the amount of fuss that is made when we go on strike or when RM cocks something up, i would say the job we do is pretty essential. Im not saying we are in the same league as Doctors etc (dont be daft), but im thinking if you took the Post Office et al away for good, the country would probably stop working.

Therefore I feel we should be paid accordingly. I dont think im being greedy or unrealistic asking to be able to afford what my parents could on their working class pittance.

I fear Im part of a generation that will have nothing when they are old. No stake in society.

I will have:

No House
No Kids
No savings
No pension
No capital

Who is gonna pay for me when im old and with nothing?

[borders]

good post Pick, anybody who thinks 280 quid is a lot of money these days is nuts . however, there is people who are paid less and it is easy to compare us to them when we should be pulling them up towards us . its kind of like a race to the bottom . my mortgage is 100 per week ,and water, gas , electric ,petrol, food , council tax is another 120 quid a week , doesnt leave much to save !! i have 200 quid in my savings account and i am in my late forties !!

[Tman]

It matters not whether the job is manual or unskilled. What matters is how important the job your doing is.

No, what matters is how easy or hard it is to train (or get) a replacement.
That's why Lionel Messi etc are very highly paid, and MacD burger flippers are minimum wage, but thinking your job is somehow important (and by association, you are too) is a recipe for disappointment ....

[smokerjim]

It matters not whether the job is manual or unskilled. What matters is how important the job your doing is.

No, what matters is how easy or hard it is to train (or get) a replacement.
That's why Lionel Messi etc are very highly paid, and MacD burger flippers are minimum wage, but thinking your job is somehow important (and by association, you are too) is a recipe for disappointment ....

Try telling that to footballers before and shortly after the end of the maximum wage in 1961 ( and maybe you should ask Jimmy Hill if the huge wages paid to top flight professional footballers now is appropiate come to think of it, how much is the average wage in the second or third tier leagues in England, Scotland, Spain or Italy )? What about the wages in catering in general? Why are people like Ramsey, Oliver, Stein, etc able to earn so much to open restaurants, yet much of their brigade do a highly skilled job for more than 12hrs a day frequently for less than the national avergae.....and don't try telling me that catering isn't important - that's like saying food isn't important.....and just how much success do you think these top chefs would get without their brigade?

If you can't answer these points in a reasoned way, then I'll have got your response

[pickaname]

It matters not whether the job is manual or unskilled. What matters is how important the job your doing is.

No, what matters is how easy or hard it is to train (or get) a replacement.
That's why Lionel Messi etc are very highly paid, and MacD burger flippers are minimum wage, but thinking your job is somehow important (and by association, you are too) is a recipe for disappointment ....

I dont think using world class footballers vs. McDonalds as a comparison is particularly valid really ( nor is postie v. starving african)...but Lionel Messi is one of a few who helps generate huge amount of revenue for Barcelona and is paid accordingly (albeit grossly inapproriate).

Therefore, as Royal Mail are generating large profits, its only fit that the workers who help raise this revenue are paid accordingly. Obviously is wont be tens of millions of pounds as per Mr. Messi, but i think a few extra pounds a week wouldnt be asking too much now would it?

We have to remember when we debate the issue of pay that life is unbalanced and those in control of the wealth are reluctant to distribute it evenly as this would relieve them of power, hence the existence of a working underclass who will always struggle to (relatively) make ends meet.

Oh and i dont think my job is important. Im told this on a daily basis by my customers and in the press as all hell breaks loose then there isnt a postal service.

You will see how the country operates without a cohesive postal service in a few years when RM goes bust and is sold off to foriegn investors.

[realitybites]

I personally don't think we are paid enough having worked in different sectors of the working community. If we were on £30k pa I think we would still be saying the same thing. It is the same the world over though. How many earning £50k still think that it's not enough. I don't think anyone can truly be happy with the amount they earn and will always want that little bit more. I think the luckiest people in this world are the ones who REALLY enjoy their jobs and would still do that job with a 50% pay cut, that is where I would ideally like to be in my life.

[axeman]

It matters not whether the job is manual or unskilled. What matters is how important the job your doing is.

No, what matters is how easy or hard it is to train (or get) a replacement.
That's why Lionel Messi etc are very highly paid, and MacD burger flippers are minimum wage, but thinking your job is somehow important (and by association, you are too) is a recipe for disappointment ....

A quote from MR Important himself, mr royal fail have to say every post you make goes to prove how much of a **** you are tman ... And have a bad 2010 it's what you deserve

[Tman]

I

dont think using world class footballers vs. McDonalds as a comparison is particularly valid really ( nor is postie v. starving african)...but Lionel Messi is one of a few who helps generate huge amount of revenue for Barcelona and is paid accordingly (albeit grossly inapproriate).

It's not any sort of "comparison", but an extreme example of how the "rarity" (and desirability) of your particular working ability affects your income levels.

Therefore, as Royal Mail are generating large profits, its only fit that the workers who help raise this revenue are paid accordingly. Obviously is wont be tens of millions of pounds as per Mr. Messi, but i think a few extra pounds a week wouldnt be asking too much now would it?

Do you expect a pay cut when the employer loses money then? Are there any public sector workers on this sort of pay deal?

We have to remember when we debate the issue of pay that life is unbalanced and those in control of the wealth are reluctant to distribute it evenly as this would relieve them of power, hence the existence of a working underclass who will always struggle to (relatively) make ends meet.

That's the old worn-out "it ain't my fault I'm poor, it's those nasty rich people's fault" argument. Held some validity up to the war, but since then it's cobblers. No-one made you be a postie, no-one forces you to carry on being a postie, and there's enough courses, night school, OU etc for you to retrain as something skilled and better paid, but of course that requires commitment and effort......

[TrueBlueTerrier]

if members ignore the PMs I have sent I will have no option but to ban you for 24 hours - come on guys follow the rules

[borders]

I

dont think using world class footballers vs. McDonalds as a comparison is particularly valid really ( nor is postie v. starving african)...but Lionel Messi is one of a few who helps generate huge amount of revenue for Barcelona and is paid accordingly (albeit grossly inapproriate).

It's not any sort of "comparison", but an extreme example of how the "rarity" (and desirability) of your particular working ability affects your income levels.

Therefore, as Royal Mail are generating large profits, its only fit that the workers who help raise this revenue are paid accordingly. Obviously is wont be tens of millions of pounds as per Mr. Messi, but i think a few extra pounds a week wouldnt be asking too much now would it?

Do you expect a pay cut when the employer loses money then? Are there any public sector workers on this sort of pay deal?

We have to remember when we debate the issue of pay that life is unbalanced and those in control of the wealth are reluctant to distribute it evenly as this would relieve them of power, hence the existence of a working underclass who will always struggle to (relatively) make ends meet.

That's the old worn-out "it ain't my fault I'm poor, it's those nasty rich people's fault" argument. Held some validity up to the war, but since then it's cobblers. No-one made you be a postie, no-one forces you to carry on being a postie, and there's enough courses, night school, OU etc for you to retrain as something skilled and better paid, but of course that requires commitment and effort......

your argument is cobblers too , the issue is are posties , shop workers, dustbinmen, clerical staff, carewokers, farmworkers, soldiers, mechanics, roadsweepers, bus drivers , nurses, factory workers, secretaries, call workers etc etc etc, are these people, that is the vast majority of The Uk's working population , are they paid enough in comparison to the cost of living ? it seems people like Pickaname [maybe you should read his post again] find it hard. we can all aspire to be the next Messi or Richard Branson but the reality is that most people will end up being one of the above and these people are the real foundations on which our society depends on.

[Tman]

your argument is cobblers too ,

Yes, I rather thought you'd think like that....

the issue is are posties , shop workers, dustbinmen, clerical staff, carewokers, farmworkers, soldiers, mechanics, roadsweepers, bus drivers , nurses, factory workers, secretaries, call workers etc etc etc, are these people, that is the vast majority of The Uk's working population , are they paid enough in comparison to the cost of living ? it seems people like Pickaname [maybe you should read his post again] find it hard. we can all aspire to be the next Messi or Richard Branson but the reality is that most people will end up being one of the above and these people are the real foundations on which our society depends on.

Your argument there is so far off my point that either didn't read, or didn't understand, my post then?
The original point was "Are we low paid?" and that has very little to do with what you've written.

[borders]

your argument is cobblers too ,

Yes, I rather thought you'd think like that....

the issue is are posties , shop workers, dustbinmen, clerical staff, carewokers, farmworkers, soldiers, mechanics, roadsweepers, bus drivers , nurses, factory workers, secretaries, call workers etc etc etc, are these people, that is the vast majority of The Uk's working population , are they paid enough in comparison to the cost of living ? it seems people like Pickaname [maybe you should read his post again] find it hard. we can all aspire to be the next Messi or Richard Branson but the reality is that most people will end up being one of the above and these people are the real foundations on which our society depends on.

Your argument there is so far off my point that either didn't read, or didn't understand, my post then?
The original point was "Are we low paid?" and that has very little to do with what you've written.

are we low paid compared to what ? other people or in comparison to the cost of living ? to other people like footballers [in your example]it is irrelevent really , cancel your Sky subscription dont go to the matches etc but our ability to pay our bills, mortgages etc is relevant to everyone, something we have no choice over.

[Tman]

That depends on how you look at the question Tman and i read it as "Are we

Good to see I'm off your "ignore" list Links......