Was there any point in striking

[Martin Walsh]

Look I am not being funny but instead of just voicing your concerns on here why dont you start banging on to your Branch about your views because at the moment clearly your views are not the views coming out in your areas ? So are you in the miniority ?

Maybe I am a bit privilged role as I get the chance to hear the views of a number of Branch"s and of course I speak to different sets of members I was in 2 offices today and held meetings with members. Members are concerned but understand that the agreement has to be the right agreement which maximises full time jobs and improves terms and conditions.

I dont believe once you explain the issues that members dont understand that this agreement is going to radically change the workplan in a way not seen across network , mail centres and delivery. I was not being patronising , i do wonder if members understand that in all mail centres will go from doing both outward primary and secondary to just one out ward pass which will not only reduce hours but will allow a mail centre to maximise inward. It will change shifts as well.

On top of that where Royal mail can use legacy equipment they will do and this will come in on one wave.

However where the mail centre has walk sequencing machines or in mail processing units then this work will be sequenced from in two bits one after midnight appox 60 percent and the other from 6 in the morning until 10. The last time we got work to a delivery office at that time for that days delivery was when we were doing two deliveries.

Now if the agreement is rejected then they the union will have to review things. But remember I can only remember their being 3 agreements that have been rejected by the membership the first one was the conduct code which Royal Mail introduced in any case the union threatened action but in the end some improvements were negotated and the membership accepted, a pay deal which Alan Johnson the then General sectretary then disgracefully put out a ballot are you willing to accept the pay deal and if not are you willing to take strike action. Unsurprisingly the members accepted the pay deal.

Then the last one was the way forward which was defeated but then Keggie , Hayes and Hogan then agreed a worse deal and the members agreed narrowinly the second time around.

The way forward was an organised campaign of almost 5 divisons. I dont think you will get that again. Most members vote for the PEC recommendation I am affaid.

Now in terms of my track record well I use to do deliveries , but I have been a full time union official for many a year. I opposed the way forward , I help lead the campagin against John Keggie who threaten to discipline me and a few others for daring to suggust that London weighting needed reviewing. I help lead the fight back when the union got a no vote under SDD and we took part in the biggest unofficail dispute since the miners which led to the £26 .28 deal and the 5 day week for everyone. Even thou only London , Essex ,Portsmouth , Covertry and Warrington actually took action to get it for everyone.

I moved the current prop which is the union policy on the labour party and not funding them , i have kept the fight for the pension issue alive with the debates at Northmapton, and I have helped lead the fight for a london wide strike then a national strike to defend terms and conditions now thats my track record.

If anyone at Cwu Hqs is in the wrong then we will state that and try and change the position either with the PEC or at Conference. I dont hide behind a keyboard when I dont like thinks I make sure that we influence the decison.

Thats why some of you if you believe your in the right and the majority need to start making sure your Branch reps echo your views because believe me what I read on here is not representative of what the reps are telling CWU Hqs.

Over to you

[Sci_Dog]

I asked the very same question weeks ago

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =1&t=21761" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The company is turmoil and complete meltdown.

[General Mannerheim]

No point as the same s**t is still going on everyday in our office.
Oh yes one thing has changed.... the vending machine now stocks Roast Chicken crisps instead of Salt and Vinegar...well done!

[dvbuk55]

Thats why some of you if you believe your in the right and the majority need to start making sure your Branch reps echo your views because believe me what I read on here is not representative of what the reps are telling CWU Hqs.

Over to you

You may be leading the fight in London but that is not representative of the rest of the country and despite what reps are reporting it is the grass roots who will decide this issue. As for what the Leaders and the PEC recommend, this time there will be a lot closer scrutiny of the agreement and ALL its ramifications. There is a great deal of mistrust by the membership in union dealings at the moment.

Those of us on a keyboard actually work for a living dingo and this is an adjunct to our working life not an attempt to preserve an ailing organisation and its minions.

Is there no statement as promised, big on promises small on deliverance.

[BELIAL]

I'll make a prediction,if this union recommends an agreement that includes local negotiation or longer delivery spans then it will be game over.Can't think why some would even think about any local element given the mischief RM managed to make with the 2007 deal. Make the same slip twice,and the RM mantra "this is all about London, why strike for them?" will work better next time. 18 months down the line and London can strike for ever but there won't be a union outside London and we all know where the work will go and the agency staff who will deliver

[snoddy]

In my office which is in the north west, the unit reps intend to resign their positions if a national agreement says they must negotiate longer delivery spans. This will mean the area rep can sort out the proposed revision and sell its merits to the membership. I imagine they wont be the only ones refusing to have any input into shafting their colleagues.
As for HQ being told we all agree that spans need to alter, this is nonsense and I know for a fact our branch hasnt asked any members what they expect from a deal.

[wranglered]

come on dingo...out yourself...many of us know you are on the PEC....

...I am sick and tired of all your flannel....

[Martin Walsh]

Wrangeled no your wrong again I am not on the PEC. Those who know me on this site know that.

Now Linkin I dont like falling out with you as you showed you were willing to fight. But I think its a cheap shot that you should say its a politicians answer as it is what I believe is right. You may disagree and thats fair enough and thats your right but lets argue on the issues. I dont slag anyone one off for holding a different view thats is their right too. If you all want this site just to a love in between those of you who believe its a sell out then fine tell me and I will go. But I dont think that is what Royal Mail chat was meant to be.

Now Belial someone i do have time for , I would wager a bet with you that more member would rebel if an agreement compelled offices to do things including longer spans , etc then would rebel if the issues which affect them in the office can be decided locally.

Now if and when the agreement finally gets done it will have things which are mandatory like Door to Door into workload , standards , guidelines on car derived vans , agreed revison procedures , agreed workplans , agreed reward but it will allow the local reps or where there is not a local the area reps to consult with the members within an office to gauage what duty patterns , what delivery spans and what mix of full time jobs and part time jobs they want in their office. I cannot understand why some are opposed to letting the members within their offices influence what their deliveries or spans are. Surely that is being a responsible trade union allowing the members effected within each office the abilty to decide how their office works.

Dvbuk the weekly review was taking place yesterday afternoon and went into the night. There is a conference call of PEC and Divisonal Reps at 12 and i persume the infomation will come out during the day.

One last thing snoddy the agreement wont compell the local reps to agree longer delivery spans but if you have or are due walk sequencing you may find its a choice between less full time jobs or a longer span if indoor workload has reduced as a result of the change in workplan or that the IPS and Prep time has been reduced.

[snoddy]

One last thing snoddy the agreement wont compell the local reps to agree longer delivery spans but if you have or are due walk sequencing you may find its a choice between less full time jobs or a longer span if indoor workload has reduced as a result of the change in workplan or that the IPS and Prep time has been reduced.

Or we could agree to NO change and the members we have will not have to do longer, unachievable deliveries.

[GHOSTman]

Now if and when the agreement finally gets done it will have things which are mandatory like Door to Door into workload , standards , guidelines on car derived vans , agreed revison procedures , agreed workplans , agreed reward but it will allow the local reps or where there is not a local the area reps to consult with the members within an office to gauage what duty patterns , what delivery spans and what mix of full time jobs and part time jobs they want in their office. I cannot understand why some are opposed to letting the members within their offices influence what their deliveries or spans are. Surely that is being a responsible trade union allowing the members effected within each office the abilty to decide how their office works.

Can someone please explain what Door to door into work load means, I've heard it a few times on here. From My point of view I already do door to door's as part of my work load, The prep of these leaflets normally takes me over my time as it is. What is the benefit of Door to door into work load?

Also, on the Full time / part time ratio, most posties I speak to want a predominantly full time work force, management want a predominantly part time work force, which is why they always sack full timers and replace them with part time, How will negotiating locally solve this problem?

[vanman]

One last thing snoddy the agreement wont compell the local reps to agree longer delivery spans but if you have or are due walk sequencing you may find its a choice between less full time jobs or a longer span if indoor workload has reduced as a result of the change in workplan or that the IPS and Prep time has been reduced.

Or we could agree to NO change and the members we have will not have to do longer, unachievable deliveries.

I've been following this and other threads with interest and snoddy's view is one that is often put forward - say no to longer deliveries!

Whilst I understand the sentiments behind this view. I don't see how such a view will protect full time jobs in the industry.

In the interests of having an informed debate, can someone who opposes longer deliveries please explain how they plan to protect full time jobs in future, given the impact of new technology/machinery?

[Big Daz]

come on dingo...out yourself...many of us know you are on the PEC....

...I am sick and tired of all your flannel....

PEC?

My info differs from yours.

[Martin Walsh]

Snoddy that is right that is what I have been saying it is your choice on the spans. Of course the mandatory parts of the national agreement if endorsed by the membership will apply but the span will be down to your office to agree. But vanman is right if you dont want longer spans how do you fill a full time job duty up if you have walk sequencing in place and due to the changes in the workplan your IPS has reduced and your prep was sequenced then it would also reduce prep time. That is the dilemma we all face. Of course no one wants longer spans but equally most want a full time job so its a differcult choice.

Now Ghostman Door to Door into workload means that door to door will now be part and parcel of your daily traffic. The ceiling of 3 will be lifted and that door to door will be allocated into worktime. You will no longer be paid for them per item. Instead you will recieve a 52 week supplement .

Wranglered your info is very wrong.

[dvbuk55]

From the way Dingo talks the deal is done already, longer delivery spans and more D2Ds, well if that is the case then its a NO.

We keep hearing these union bods talking about how much time all this sequencing and machinery is going to save, but exactly how much time is it going to save on a delivery? It strikes me that they want to increase the weight on delivery over a longer span to save full time jobs. What we need is a two delivery system with a break in between perhaps they would like to put that forward to Royal Mail - better still put it to the membership first and see how they like it.

They talk out of their rump. What IS needed is for them to get out on a delivery outside of London, with perhaps 600 rural drops, 20% households, packets coming out of your backside and torrential rain and see if they'd like to do that for 5 hours a day, 5 days a week, 48 weeks of the year.

[Big Daz]

dvbuk

If you recall the independent chair said agreement had been reached on some issues.

I would suggest that Dingo is simply making us aware of what has been agreed (provisonally,untill we vote yes)