It gets worse for Sci_Dog. Threatened by a senior manager...

[Lincox]

Well done Ski-Dog. You have shown that if you have the balls for a fight, you do not have to cow down to these inept pr..ks that think they have the right to treat people just how they wish. Compare these numpties with the young female Royal Naval medic who was given an award for running 70 metres in crossfire to aid a fallen soldier, and given an award at the Heroes ceremony last night, they should be down right disgusted with their actions in comparison.
However beware of their reaction, they will stop at nothing to put the knife in. Have eyes in the back of your head, do not let your guard drop. The wounded animal and all that!

[ashadd]

I too am in the same position as sci_dog, i have been off work for at least nine weeks now with work related stress and still no nearer to getting my problem resolved.My problem started when a DIM threatened me because i would not take mail out with me because i did not have enough time to complete my delivery. That incident i put in a bullying and harressment grievence. In the end i had to put in another one because the first one took ages to be dealt with. I was "picked on " because i would not work overtime.I had my walk tested, sadly it was by the dim and a line manager who did it in a car and were seen running in the streets to complete. They also left packets in the office. Since the revision most of the walks in my office have had problems and most have had to book o/t ,or come in early to finish on time , i dont want to do that so i didnt.I have had my prep speed tested ,twice now and the dom even tried to fix the figours so i would look bad.Buti did find out there is no agreed prep rate. I even started to incorporate the d2d in the time which really pissed him off. I have had one meeting since i have been off, it was with the area manager,this was regarding my bullying and harressment claims.I told everything that was going and thaught great it will all get sorted now.WRONG! the area manager wrote back to for me to read his notes of the meeting and if i agreed with them to sign them and send them back to him.
It was the biggest load of crap i have seen , he had wrote about seven sentences to cover the meeting, completly missing the point.So i wrote back to him saying how dissappointed i was that he wasnt paying attention to what i said in the meeting.This was six weeks ago and i have heard nothing since. Ihave contacted gateway loads of time and they cant get any reply of the area manager , so now i am just waiting

[La Poste]

It was the biggest load of crap i have seen , he had wrote about seven sentences to cover the meeting, completly missing the point.So i wrote back to him saying how dissappointed i was that he wasnt paying attention to what i said in the meeting.This was six weeks ago and i have heard nothing since. Ihave contacted gateway loads of time and they cant get any reply of the area manager , so now i am just waiting

Note taking really is a problem in these meetings believe me I know. I'm not sure what the solution is.
After my meetings I sent back loads of ammendmnts which predictably were not accepted but a record is made of them at least.
If you amend the notes keep all the copies of your ammendments and present them at the next hearing. After a whle RM start to take notice.
When you make a point ask for it to be put in the notes and ask for a copy of the rough handwritten notes before you go. They may say no but at least you can say you asked for them later on down the line.
I don't know what the best solution to this crappy note taking is, I guess a voice recorder.

[Lincox]

I would suggest that you get everything minuted by the person representing you, and there is absolutely no reason for both parties if they agree what has been minuted to sign to say that they agree that this is a true representation of the meeting that took place. There must also be time restrictions within the grievance procedures whereby RM must come back to you with a response. If you do not know what these are, then ask them during the meeting to inform you what the time procedures are and get the response minuted. RM are getting away with obstructing the procedures that they lay down because they are not getting challenged. Do not be afraid to confront them. You are entitled to receive a proper hearing as laid down by RMs own regulations. You may not get the final result that you want but you can get them to act responsibly within their own procedures. As has been said before. Do not go to any interview without proper representation. You are entitled to call off the meeting until such time as you can be properly represented. Have a meeting with your representative before you go into the formal hearing and ask him/her to take minutes of everything that is discussed between the two parties. At the end of the meeting ask the RM person in charge of the hearing if they are prepared to sign the minutes taken for you. If they refuse ask them why, and get your representative to document the refusal and reason why. You need a complete paper trail of events, because if you eventually go to ET/IT your documentation will be highly critical to the decisions of the ET/IT Panel. If you can show that you have tried to engage RM at every point along their own procedures and they have acted irresponsibly you have a great chance of being successful. Dont be afraid. Prepare to be successful. Dont prepare and you will not be successful. Hope this helps.

[ashadd]

Iam keeping all documents with my rep including photocopies of my sicknotes, just in case

[hantsman]

I would suggest that you get everything minuted by the person representing you, and there is absolutely no reason for both parties if they agree what has been minuted to sign to say that they agree that this is a true representation of the meeting that took place. There must also be time restrictions within the grievance procedures whereby RM must come back to you with a response. If you do not know what these are, then ask them during the meeting to inform you what the time procedures are and get the response minuted. RM are getting away with obstructing the procedures that they lay down because they are not getting challenged. Do not be afraid to confront them. You are entitled to receive a proper hearing as laid down by RMs own regulations. You may not get the final result that you want but you can get them to act responsibly within their own procedures. As has been said before. Do not go to any interview without proper representation. You are entitled to call off the meeting until such time as you can be properly represented. Have a meeting with your representative before you go into the formal hearing and ask him/her to take minutes of everything that is discussed between the two parties. At the end of the meeting ask the RM person in charge of the hearing if they are prepared to sign the minutes taken for you. If they refuse ask them why, and get your representative to document the refusal and reason why. You need a complete paper trail of events, because if you eventually go to ET/IT your documentation will be highly critical to the decisions of the ET/IT Panel. If you can show that you have tried to engage RM at every point along their own procedures and they have acted irresponsibly you have a great chance of being successful. Dont be afraid. Prepare to be successful. Dont prepare and you will not be successful. Hope this helps.

Top advice, this should be a sticky IMHO

[AnotherLimey]

Yeah RM sure know all about stress and how to help those that suffer from it
Sure you feel even worse now after that phone call.
Complete idiots that have lost touch with reality since they came off the beat,if they were ever on it.

Bunch of s**t bags the lot of em, had a mate today really good lad that will do anything for anyone that was refused to be allowed to go home on a day not only he was moving (very stressful) but his very ill mother was being commited to a mental home, he's on a stage 2 and has had a sickness since so was worried it would trigger a stage 3, we as an office put pressure on the manager and he was allowed home in the end.

[newpostie]

" He said he was VERY disappointed I wasn't at home to sign for the letter to acknowledge the meeting with him. He said if I'm off sick I should only leave the house for a doctors or work related issue! "

aggressive , intimidating and sour grapes - he'd have to loved to do you as a "malingerer" but even he knows it won't stick . They'd need hard " evidence " like with that Land Registry PCS rep that was filmed .

You can't live on nothing , you have to go to the shops etc . RM has taken a lot of public shaftings recently and there's bad feeling & with this site too with the press watching . Anyway he's on the internet now .

four walls is going to do a lot of good to someone with a stress complaint

Sounds like they don't want to go against the original manager they're protecting for a reason .

Keep your powder dry and use it wisely . Be very careful when you come back , they'll want rid of you as a "loose canon" and they'll stitch you up ; one way or another .

our line managers signed off for 2 months didnt stop him going to get wasted at the managers xmas doo! full of s**t mate

[norbert]

& that will all be kept down

[greynut]

There are 2 things here that I would like to bring to your attention:


1. The RM grievance procedure should only take 28 days. This is set out by RM and their HR department. So for the manager to say that is could be a lengthy and drawn out procedure would only be down to his and RM's incompetence.

2. When your are off with stress. You ARE allowed to do whatever it takes to get better. That includes walks, going for a drive and even playing golf.

I would go back to your doctor and say that the manager wants you housebound. He will then add to his notes that he recommends long walks to the shops and wherever you want to go.

The more staff that challenge this outrageous behaviour by untrained, bullying managers the better. :cfo

[norbert]

Hello troops,

hope you are well?

Started back to work today and had my meeting also. The DSM, the local DOM, my CWU Rep and myself were all present. It got pretty heated but I got my point across. Basically though this is the situation I'm in-

The District Sector Manager KNOWS AND ADMITS there is problems in the office with regards to how the DOM and Assistant DOM manage. However rather than address the issues concerning them he would far rather preach to me that I put my head down and stay out of trouble. I have no problems with that but if the managers are going to be heavy handed when using the conduct code, they have to use it across the whole of the office to each and every indivdual that falls foul of it. From prep rates to time keeping. They can not use one person to scare the whole office. Which they have done. The DSM knows their is local management problems but I doubt very much he will address them. Are all managers totally ignorant of the fact that the majority of problems within the company stem back to them and their attitudes and unrealistic working conditions and computer generated targets?

This senior manger has indeed confirmed and rubber stamped that the company is in total turmoil and complete meltdown. I personally think it is far too late to fix the problems now. Basically we are f**ked. The relationship between management and the workforce is beyond help. I really do hope to jump ship before it does indeed sink. Like it or not troops the ship is sinking and sinking very bloody fast. We have our managers to thank for that. Whenever a senior manager doesn't even have the sense to show a local manager what problems need addressed, what hope has the rest of the company and workforce? It is quite ironic that the majority of men and women employed by Royal Mail to make sure we the workforce do our job right are not even capable of doing their own job right. It's actually quite laughable. It really is. By the time Mr Crozier and his team admit where the problems were it'll be too late.......the company will be down and out.

Sci_Dog

it goes as high as Higson - he refuses to acknowledge there is a rampant bullying and harassment culture -and the Union want a inquiry into it - so the DSM has his head in the sand - it's too "political " for the DSM . Mandy and Hooper have been scathingly critical of Senior Management , where the buck stops ; RM will only admit they have a problem unless they are forced to .

It's like the German Generals that dare not tell Hitler anything in WW2 . You also have to look at the Director and his record at Shorts and why RM headhunted him .

Deliberate run down to make Privatisation look like the only panacea - and the buck stops with Mandy . All the Tory papers are hovering for any little thing and they'll put pressure on RM for the bigger vultures that are waiting to pounce .

[DGP1]

2. When your are off with stress. You ARE allowed to do whatever it takes to get better. That includes walks, going for a drive and even playing golf.

It's also recommended by ATOS to help your recovery.

[brothermagrew]

it goes as high as Higson - he refuses to acknowledge there is a rampant bullying and harassment culture -and the Union want a inquiry into it

Perhaps Messrs Higson and Co should take a small lesson in humility from the previous Chairman Big Al:

Risks issue no 137 – 20 December 2003.

Royal Mail the “worst company for bullying”

Royal Mail is the worst company in the country for bullying
harassment, according to its top boss. Chairperson Allan Leighton has
said “staff at Royal Mail are trapped in a macho culture surrounded by
mental and physical assault, where workers suffer in a culture of
bullying and harassment and where staff have been assaulted
including beatings and the use of knifes.” He added: “There's more
bullying and harassment in Royal Mail than in any other company in
the country.” Billy Hayes, general secretary of the Communication
Workers’ Union (CWU) commented: “Allan Leighton is right to mount a
challenge to bullying and harassment in the workplace. The CWU fully
supports the company in backing a campaign the union launched more
than three years ago. We were the first to draw attention to the
problem within the company, the first to set up a harassment hotline
and the first to outline union, as well as company, responsibilities as
regards bullying and harassment.” Last year CWU called for a
campaign to make the industry harassment free, after 26-year-old
mail centre worker Jermaine Lee took his own life after enduring racist
bullying at work.

The Equal Opportunities Commission launched the probe in January 2003, following 48 claims of sex discrimination and 140 claims of sexual harassment over a two-and-a-half year period. Of the latter, 130 led to internal investigations, and 65% of the complaints were upheld.

IMHO the CWU are quite right to call for a fresh inquiry into the bullying and harassment culture in which 6 or 7 years on appears to have never been eradicated.

[fishtank]

it goes as high as Higson - he refuses to acknowledge there is a rampant bullying and harassment culture -and the Union want a inquiry into it

Perhaps Messrs Higson and Co should take a small lesson in humility from the previous Chairman Big Al:

Risks issue no 137 – 20 December 2003.

Royal Mail the “worst company for bullying”

Royal Mail is the worst company in the country for bullying
harassment, according to its top boss. Chairperson Allan Leighton has
said “staff at Royal Mail are trapped in a macho culture surrounded by
mental and physical assault, where workers suffer in a culture of
bullying and harassment and where staff have been assaulted
including beatings and the use of knifes.” He added: “There's more
bullying and harassment in Royal Mail than in any other company in
the country.” Billy Hayes, general secretary of the Communication
Workers’ Union (CWU) commented: “Allan Leighton is right to mount a
challenge to bullying and harassment in the workplace. The CWU fully
supports the company in backing a campaign the union launched more
than three years ago. We were the first to draw attention to the
problem within the company, the first to set up a harassment hotline
and the first to outline union, as well as company, responsibilities as
regards bullying and harassment.” Last year CWU called for a
campaign to make the industry harassment free, after 26-year-old
mail centre worker Jermaine Lee took his own life after enduring racist
bullying at work.

The Equal Opportunities Commission launched the probe in January 2003, following 48 claims of sex discrimination and 140 claims of sexual harassment over a two-and-a-half year period. Of the latter, 130 led to internal investigations, and 65% of the complaints were upheld.

IMHO the CWU are quite right to call for a fresh inquiry into the bullying and harassment culture in which 6 or 7 years on appears to have never been eradicated.

All very well Brotherbrothermagrew but do you see the word management anywhere in that tirade.

[ashadd]

There are 2 things here that I would like to bring to your attention:


1. The RM grievance procedure should only take 28 days. This is set out by RM and their HR department. So for the manager to say that is could be a lengthy and drawn out procedure would only be down to his and RM's incompetence.

2. When your are off with stress. You ARE allowed to do whatever it takes to get better. That includes walks, going for a drive and even playing golf.

I would go back to your doctor and say that the manager wants you housebound. He will then add to his notes that he recommends long walks to the shops and wherever you want to go.

The more staff that challenge this outrageous behaviour by untrained, bullying managers the better. :cfo

28 DAYS???????? Ive been off since October due to a bullying Dom .One meeting in all this time and am still no where near returning to work.