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employment tribunals

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norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Re: employment tribunals

Post by norbert »

looking in wrote:
La Poste wrote:I think out of all the things I've found out about tribunals, the most important is this ( I could be wrong)
La Poste wrote:
The tribunal is unlikely to make you pay your employer’s costs for defending (arguing against) your claim even if you lose. Similarly, if you win, the tribunal is unlikely to make your employer pay your costs for bringing the claim (such as the cost of copying documents or getting the advice of a solicitor). You should be prepared to pay these costs yourself.
It means you can have a go at RM without the fear of getting hit for thousands in legal bills.
Gives you breathing space and time to think about how you will present it.
Even if you do it on your own which I'm sure would be very intimidating you can still have a go.
Does anyone know if you can sit and view tribunals as a public guest.
Cheers.
And one more thing, if you submit an ET1 form before your appeal, does that mean RM could read it and then find out what reasons you have for giving it in, they could use this bit of evidence through their appeal manager to plug the loopholes in their own case.
Definately more research needed.
great post la poste,very interesting points you put over there,really hope sum1 from the union responds :Applause

RM seem to hope you won't get that far - you'll be too worn down or sick to death of it all . Basically it's about prosecution but it's not half as black and white as it would appear .
La Poste
Posts: 369
Joined: 21 Sep 2009, 12:46
Gender: Male
Location: Somewhere or other.

Re: employment tribunals

Post by La Poste »

Almost all hearings are open to the public and the press are free to attend and report the proceedings.
So it's possible to go down there and get an idea of what you are up against.
http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/H ... entres.htm


Does one party have to pay the other party's costs?
Generally no. However, where in the opinion of the tribunal, a party has in bringing the proceedings, or a party or a party's representative has in conducting the proceedings, acted abusively, disruptively or otherwise unreasonably, or the bringing or conducting of the proceedings by a party has been misconceived, the tribunal may make an order in respect of all or part of the other party's costs.
Better make sure that your case is presented in a polite and reasonable manner. No swearing at the Chairman allowed. It also explains why the union will only take certain cases, if they are misconceived the union could find itself with a hefty bill. A fact RM managers would find most amusing no doubt.
http://www.netlawman.co.uk/info/Employ- ... s-proc.php

So the golden question still remains, if you fill an ET1 form in before your appeal will RM be able it read it?
No I'm not being paranoid, they really are out to get me.
hantsman
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 876
Joined: 14 Jul 2009, 09:33
Gender: Male

Re: employment tribunals

Post by hantsman »

La Poste wrote:Back to tribunals.
On the one hand you have RM being able to sack someone and only have to worry about a max £15000 bill.
On the other you have the bad publicity angle.
If you are sacked and re-instated, the bad publicity this generates is not in RM's interest so they try to avoid it.
The appeals manager will have to take all this into consideration, infact this is probably what guides the manager most, not there being a fair hearing but can we win this at tribunal.
I have been told by the union to put an ET1 form in before an appeal as this can "concentrate the appeal managers mind".

To be honest i think some of the above is just hearsay.

RM are not really worried about bad publicity, just look at their track record. I think they dont care 2 hoots.

When it goes to the appeal manager it really goes to an outside/contracted legal team based in London to look at hence the appeal time.

Even if you put an appeal in to an IT/ET against dismissal, RM or any employer has 28 days to respond, so really it wont have an intial impact on the appeal.
La Poste
Posts: 369
Joined: 21 Sep 2009, 12:46
Gender: Male
Location: Somewhere or other.

Re: employment tribunals

Post by La Poste »

hantsman wrote:To be honest i think some of the above is just hearsay.
Hearsay from reading the internet, I don't really know how loaded the system is against the small guy, the employee, the main thing is establishing if they are free.
I am going to have a look at a few tribunals as a member of the public, see what they are like.
No I'm not being paranoid, they really are out to get me.
norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Re: employment tribunals

Post by norbert »

La Poste wrote:
hantsman wrote:To be honest i think some of the above is just hearsay.
Hearsay from reading the internet, I don't really know how loaded the system is against the small guy, the employee, the main thing is establishing if they are free.
I am going to have a look at a few tribunals as a member of the public, see what they are like.

Hantsman may have a point about RM riding out bad publicity - they may think it's just a means to a end :hmmmm - Nothing wrong in digging away on T'Internet , better reading or watching / listening to all that banal inane rubbish in the media .
La Poste
Posts: 369
Joined: 21 Sep 2009, 12:46
Gender: Male
Location: Somewhere or other.

Re: employment tribunals

Post by La Poste »

One thing, every one is trying to catch you out all the way up the system from initial conduct interview to appeal and I guess to tribunal.
If you have a story, a defence, keep it simple as the more interviews you have the more questions will be aimed at catching you out and getting you to contradict yourself.
The fact that you have many interviews may help you as the witnesses or the main accusers may end up contradicting themselves.
I'm not sure how much it will help you showing their witnesses are contradicting themselves but I'm sure if RM catch you contradicting yourself they will pounce on it like a tiger.
Here's a good quote:
Above all, bear in mind that cases are more often lost by the losing side than won by the winner. That is to say, most hearings tip in favour of the winning party while the other party is giving its evidence.
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:4d ... =firefox-a
Just trust in the Lord.
No I'm not being paranoid, they really are out to get me.
sharonbar
Posts: 142
Joined: 05 Nov 2008, 14:39
Gender: Female

Re: employment tribunals

Post by sharonbar »

got told not to put my it form in until i get my decisition from my appeal is that the right procedure
La Poste
Posts: 369
Joined: 21 Sep 2009, 12:46
Gender: Male
Location: Somewhere or other.

Re: employment tribunals

Post by La Poste »

sharonbar wrote:got told not to put my it form in until i get my decisition from my appeal is that the right procedure
Who by?
No I'm not being paranoid, they really are out to get me.
hantsman
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 876
Joined: 14 Jul 2009, 09:33
Gender: Male

Re: employment tribunals

Post by hantsman »

sharonbar wrote:got told not to put my it form in until i get my decisition from my appeal is that the right procedure


Sharon have you signed on yet?

You can fill out the IT form now, although the IT does normally like you to go through the complete employers conduct procedure, including most importantly the final dismissal appeal. However if this takes you over 3 months you then can't normally go to an IT. So be warned, how long since you have been dismissed 2 months?
norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Re: employment tribunals

Post by norbert »

La Poste wrote:
sharonbar wrote:got told not to put my it form in until i get my decisition from my appeal is that the right procedure
Who by?

Sounds like the union don't want anyone making waves outside the PO . The days of benign management have long gone , different ball game now . RM won't be in any hurry as they've ceased paying you - just another number - sorry but ....
La Poste
Posts: 369
Joined: 21 Sep 2009, 12:46
Gender: Male
Location: Somewhere or other.

Re: employment tribunals

Post by La Poste »

norbert wrote:Sounds like the union don't want anyone making waves outside the PO . The days of benign management have long gone , different ball game now .
Can you explain a bit more about what you mean?
Cheers.
No I'm not being paranoid, they really are out to get me.
norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Re: employment tribunals

Post by norbert »

La Poste wrote:
norbert wrote:Sounds like the union don't want anyone making waves outside the PO . The days of benign management have long gone , different ball game now .
Can you explain a bit more about what you mean?
Cheers.
quote="hantsman"]
sharonbar wrote:got told not to put my it form in until i get my decisition from my appeal is that the right procedure
you asked who by - I suspected it was the union - It just seems to me that the union sound like the don't rock the boat brigade , that might have been OK-ish in the past but not now .

there will be some from the Union that don't want to end up at the Job Centre themselves though :hmmmm
La Poste
Posts: 369
Joined: 21 Sep 2009, 12:46
Gender: Male
Location: Somewhere or other.

Re: employment tribunals

Post by La Poste »

I wonder how difficult it would be to persuade the union to represent you at tribunal. I'm sure they will be reluctant unless you present them with a really good case.
I think they ask you to fill the ET1 form in after the appeal in the hope that you will go away.
If you fill it in before at least everybody knows you are not fukking about.
Biggest thing on your side is the fact the tribunal is free as long as your case is reasonable.
Even if you have to stand in the dock alone.
No I'm not being paranoid, they really are out to get me.
norbert
Posts: 3027
Joined: 15 Jan 2008, 01:46

Re: employment tribunals

Post by norbert »

La Poste wrote:I wonder how difficult it would be to persuade the union to represent you at tribunal. I'm sure they will be reluctant unless you present them with a really good case.
I think they ask you to fill the ET1 form in after the appeal in the hope that you will go away.
If you fill it in before at least everybody knows you are not fukking about.
Biggest thing on your side is the fact the tribunal is free as long as your case is reasonable.
Even if you have to stand in the dock alone.

Try these - there's a fella that only got counselling - RM were threatened with monitoring by the Equal Opportunities Commission as their record wasn't er .... very good . They will take the case on if it's strategic

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/your-rights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RM won't like it , there's hell of a difference between all that right on PC / Right - on flannel they parrot out and the real RM .
hantsman
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 876
Joined: 14 Jul 2009, 09:33
Gender: Male

Re: employment tribunals

Post by hantsman »

Just found this, its current.


The law relating to unfair dismissal can be found in the Employment Rights Act 1996.
Workers who are employees have a right not to be unfairly dismissed by their employers.

The right not to be unfairly dismissed applies, with exceptions, only to employees who have been employed continuously by their employers for one year or more.

The exceptions are dismissals of employees which are deemed by the law to be automatically unfair. Examples of dismissals which are automatically unfair are those where an employee is dismissed because she is pregnant or maternity-related; he or she has raised a health and safety issue; or made a public interest disclosure; sex/race/age/religion or belief/sexual orientation/disability reasons as well as other automatically unfair reasons.

An employee who has been dismissed for an automatically unfair reason can make a claim to a tribunal without needing to have been employed for one year or more.

Employers can fairly dismiss their employees for one or more of the statutorily fair six reasons being: (i) capability or qualification; (ii) (mis)conduct; (iii) redundancy; (iv) a restriction or breach of a duty imposed by or under statute; (v) some other substantial reason; (vi) compulsory retirement or for the reason of age where objectively justified.

Before taking action against an employee, up to 05 April 2009 the employer must use the statutory three-stage disciplinary and dismissal procedures which require the employer to (i) inform the employee of the reason for taking action against her or him, (ii) invite the employee to a DDP meeting, (iii) notify the employee of the decision and that he or she has the right to appeal. An employee will not be regarded as having completed the three-stage procedures if he or she fails to appeal against the employer’s decision to dismiss. Accordingly, a tribunal will not accept an unfair dismissal claim from such an employee.

From 06 April 2009 the statutory three-stage procedures are repealed and in its place employers and employees should use the ACAS Code of Practice on Disciplinary and Grievance Procedures that is issued under section 199 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 and is in force from 06 April 2009.

An employee who wishes to raise a grievance with her or his employer, particular before terminating the contract of employment and making a claim that he or she has been constructively dismissed because of what the employer has said or done must, before 06 April 2009, use one of the two statutory grievance procedures or from 06 April 2009 he or she should use the grievance procedure under the ACAS Code of Practice.

Employees who need to make a claim to an employment tribunal to recover their financial losses from their former employers who have unfairly dismissed them must make a claim within three months of the effective date of the termination of their contract of employment.

There are three remedies that an employment tribunal can award a successful claimant:

(1) re-instatement; (2) re-employment; or (3) financial compensation.

Financial compensation consists of:

(i) a Basic Award, the current maximum of which from 01 February 2009 is £10,500 that is based on a maximum week’s pay of £350 x 30 = £10,500;

(ii) a Compensatory Award that has no limit on a week’s pay but is capped at £66,200.