BBC PANORAMA DISCUSSION THREAD

[baldrick]

If they outweigh the number of delivery members we will be stuffed!

Delivery workers are the majority (two-thirds I think) of CWU Postal membership.
I do agree, in principle, that only members directly affected should vote on any particular aspect of an agreement.
But how would that work if there was rejection - who would be ballotted for strike action if the employer
implemented it by Executive Action. Only those members directly affected?

[spilie]

as long as it is a local decision to do longer spans, does that mean if we at our d.o reject it then we wont have it forced on us? or is this another cutting us loose at local that has got us into this mess in the first place, i feel the effects of LSD otherwise known as Lets Shaft Delivery

[POSTMAN]

Ok,i've had a thought,the national agreement is 3.5hrs for delivery,word on the street or rather in this thread is we 'may' have to go over that to 'protect full time jobs.'
Just a few things and i may be a bit nieve here.......
Start at 6,finish at 2,that may change with later starts but you get what i mean.
In those 8hrs we do a 3.30 delivery,40 mins meal relief,15 mins out,1-30 pick up by drivers at my place for running back empty van,and van check.(30 mins)
That is 4hrs 55mins,that leaves 3hrs 5 mins inside work.
We IPS and prep,in between that we have,some of us,a bit of spare time.Depending on the traffic/day of course.

Now,we all know,and it's in black and white,we've all had the RM propaganda,and it has been said many times by RM top brass,that NO full timer wil be forced to go part time!
So my question is,why the f**k does it need us to 'possibly' have a larger delivery span when RM can do f**k all to us.

Yes at times we have spare time,but there is lapsing/absorption,prepping part timers walks and long and shorts so any spare is now becoming sparse.

Anyone?

[norbert]

Who will actually vote on all of this new delivery model ? Processing,distribution etc. ain't gonna give a stuff about D2D,longer deliveries,later start times and later Saturdays.If they outweigh the number of delivery members we will be stuffed! Any vote concerning delivery issues only should be voted on by those on delivery and nobody else.

Maybe they should start giving a stuff - RM aren't going to go home happy when they've finished with deliveries.....network and processing will be next & some of them could end up being offered a choice of resigning from RM or start using a delivery pouch - and no one in deliveries will have any energy left to help them out.

The wiser ones in Processing / Logistics / Distribution know it's the same RM machine that works in the same way everywhere . RM went / are going for you guys because 1 . It's a bigger scalp 2 . They've got this TNT Dutch idea of a standard low delivery cost in every DO - it doesn't really matter if it can't work / won't work . Leighton admitted that everything is designed to fail so privatisation becomes the " solution " - I see through that nice cop act though .

I agree it's easier to push someone out than pay them up .

I'd think they'd split the functions because then it's easier to privatise . You could even have franchisees & management buy outs , it has happened .

I did hear a plant on Hellmail in 2007 talking of paying wagon drivers off , getting agency workers in - no stamp to pay , no uniform , holidays or sick pay ? and selling the wagons and everything that goes with them off and then lease wagons . On paper it saves money in the short term .

[Lincox]

Whats going to happen in the rural subs. No IPS there. If all mail comes in walk sequenced I can see them chopping jobs and making longer walks for those left with a job. Either that or less hours for the majority who are mainly part time hours now already. Anyone with any thoughts for the rural subs?

[Tman]

Isn't it strange that over the last 25hrs there hasn't been a peep from Night Tonic, or Tman, or any of the other usual suspects and apologists?

That is all, thank you

Many posters don't read every post in every thread, so aren't going to see every silly comment even if it was worthy of reply. In the meantime, I'm sure your reasoning for posting the above is beyond reproach, even though sadly it comes across as the usual junior school level stuff...

[themaze617]

Lincox- i work in a ruralish office and we get couple trays of walk sort each and everything else , letters,flats,packets has to be ips'd, and nothing is sequenced.

[Exrep]

Heres my stance for the coming months for every person i respresent in our D/O.

IF and its a big IF longer D/S are brought in.

I shall advise ALL to reject it and i will fight tooth and nail against them ,even if it means me going against the advice of my branch. I do not care if every other office in my area jumps on board the train of doom we will not accept this. I advise all reps on here to be strong and do the same this is not in the long term a good deal far to many folk will lose there job. No office should consider by-downs if you take evr make sure that position is then replaced with a F/T vacancy.

It seems to becoming clear that we the members must protect our futures and not leave it in the hands of others.

Deep down i am still convinced we the members will have no need to go head -head with our union and that they will do the rite thing for us.

After the shambles of the 2007 P/M agreement they surely must of learnt there lesson you never burn your fingers twice do you.

[2old4this]

Ok,i've had a thought,the national agreement is 3.5hrs for delivery,word on the street or rather in this thread is we 'may' have to go over that to 'protect full time jobs.'
Just a few things and i may be a bit nieve here.......
Start at 6,finish at 2,that may change with later starts but you get what i mean.
In those 8hrs we do a 3.30 delivery,40 mins meal relief,15 mins out,1-30 pick up by drivers at my place for running back empty van,and van check.(30 mins)
That is 4hrs 55mins,that leaves 3hrs 5 mins inside work.
We IPS and prep,in between that we have,some of us,a bit of spare time.Depending on the traffic/day of course.

Now,we all know,and it's in black and white,we've all had the RM propaganda,and it has been said many times by RM top brass,that NO full timer wil be forced to go part time!
So my question is,why the f**k does it need us to 'possibly' have a larger delivery span when RM can do f**k all to us.

Yes at times we have spare time,but there is lapsing/absorption,prepping part timers walks and long and shorts so any spare is now becoming sparse.

Anyone?

Only way I can see this working is if we came in prep as we do now, and then take out say 2/3rds of the delivery, come back have a break, maybe do more preping and then take out the other 1/3rd.

But the main thing is that longer deliveries will mean less walks in the office as a whole. People are going to lose their job's and that will go down like a bacon butty in a mosque at our place.
It'll be a brave bloke that tell's us we striked so that some of us can be sacked.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Monkeyboy your last two posts have been spot on. Im not good on the computer but if someone provided an address where i could write to the hierarchy at the cwu i would make my feelings known on the delivery span for certain, just as i was glad to get an address to martin heward to drop him a card and a note too. Im using an HCT, supposedly perfect to increase the delivery span. 29 blocks of flats and 4hrs 10 minutes on foot there and back to office. Im shattered and only 40 so plenty of years to go yet

cwu contact.jpg

If you wish you could address any letters to Mr Dave Ward he is the Deputy General Secretary (Postal) and is the chief man for us in deliveries and processing.

[AnotherLimey]

Heres my stance for the coming months for every person i respresent in our D/O.

IF and its a big IF longer D/S are brought in.

I shall advise ALL to reject it and i will fight tooth and nail against them ,even if it means me going against the advice of my branch. I do not care if every other office in my area jumps on board the train of doom we will not accept this. I advise all reps on here to be strong and do the same this is not in the long term a good deal far to many folk will lose there job. No office should consider by-downs if you take evr make sure that position is then replaced with a F/T vacancy.

It seems to becoming clear that we the members must protect our futures and not leave it in the hands of others.

Deep down i am still convinced we the members will have no need to go head -head with our union and that they will do the rite thing for us.

After the shambles of the 2007 P/M agreement they surely must of learnt there lesson you never burn your fingers twice do you.

Spot on Monkey, well said

[norbert]

"It'll be a brave bloke that tell's us we striked so that some of us can be sacked.[/quote]"

- sounds like the time with Johnson with BT ? , the only sop he could offer was getting relatively good redundancy terms . There's ex BT staff that love Johnson .

There's plants on the fluffy forum bragging about the union losing all credibility after 2007 and orchestrating strikes in London . It's all firefighting ? .

[Martin Walsh]

Postman I understand where your coming from but the fact that they cannot complusory downdial your hours does not mean they cannot transfer you to another office to ensure that the delivery model can be introduced.

We have seen the amount of surplus staff that a few offices have as a result of imposed revisions now and the way they have already.

Look i think it is fair to say that the dilemea for anyone in the future is a balance between those who want to maximise full time jobs and will accept that with indoor work being processed differently than will accept a longer span and those who believe that 3.5 is the maximum limit. Thats why those issues have to be resolved locally.

Fishtank demoracy in the workplace is always a risk but so is a national vote. In my view the decison of choice should always be at the local level providing there is a national framework.

[clashcityrocker]

I reckon the introduction of a 4hr15 park and loop delivery would cost approx 10 jobs in our office.
What happens if we only have 5 who want to take voluntary redundancy/early retirement?
Are we looking at compulsory redundancy? Or will the union look the other way as people are sacked for trivial/trumped up charges?

[AnotherLimey]

Dingo your location says neverland and to be honest you are living in it, These machines are not taking the time out of prep that you would like to belive.

If the future means full timers prep thier delivery plus a partimers so be it but like i said before there is no way i'm gonna walk the streets for hours on end for some silly agreement you and your mates come up with to protect full time jobs.