BBC PANORAMA DISCUSSION THREAD

[Exrep]

TBT by having local agreements it takes the flack away from the CWU hierachy an leaves it all at the door of the local rep.

As this is national dispute it should be concluded with a national agreement not local.

Dingo out of those 145 offices that have had EXE ACT implemented mine is one of them.

I think once all the dust has settled HQ will be slimmed down by it members or the membership will be slimmed down .

Do you ever get that feeling your being lead to a firing squad blind folded.

[axeman]

And by the sound of 'dingo's' post no mention at all of working within h&s guide lines on the extra long deliveries .The agreement must be national not local so higson and his fellow creeps cant wriggle out of situations they find themselves in when it doesn't work

[POSTMAN]

To be fair guys,dingo has mentioned that the delivery span will only change if you want it to.

[Big Daz]

May I ask a question boys and girls, if you have a delivery that is spot on for 3.5 hours, what happens if the indoor workload is not enough to sustain every 3.5 hour delivery being a FT duty?

[fishtank]

To be fair guys,dingo has mentioned that the delivery span will only change if you want it to.

But if it does not it will cost full time jobs. Not a very nice choice for a local rep/office to make.

May I ask a question boys and girls, if you have a delivery that is spot on for 3.5 hours, what happens if the indoor workload is not enough to sustain every 3.5 hour delivery being a FT duty?

May i ask a question dingo, If you have a delivery that is spot on for 4 hours,as in some areas of the country, what happens if the indoor workload is not enough to sustain every 4hr delivery being a FT duty?

dingo wrote
"Remember there were 680 revisons put into Royal Mail in 2009 only 440 were by executive action."
dingo wrote
"across the UK there are now 145 agreements where Royal Mail had taken executive action."

Does that mean after 6 WEEKS there are still 295 offices without agreement.
Where is the PEC, the independant chair, ACAS, the union.

dingo wrote
"The reason why the CWU is considering this option is that not all of our members take either their whole meal relief or a meal relief at all."

So let me get this straight,I may lose my paid meal relief because the union accepts that members break H&S guidelines.

I cannot imagine how local reps will be able to justify any of this farce.
And those are the ones in the firing line dingo.

[Martin Walsh]

Axeman the union has involved the walk design group , health and safety reps and commissioned a report on longer spans. So yes the union has taken into account Heath and safety issues. However the evidence suggust that it is safer to perform a 4 hour walk without having a bag on the shoulder than it is to do a 3.5 hour span with a bag on the shoulder.

The union will have safeguards within the national agreement which prevent an office going past 4 hours without the right equipment. But some offices have already agreed longer spans and that by choice and to not only defend full time jobs but to upgrade part timers to full time.

Monkeyman Royal Mail have stated in front of acas that they have £140 million to spend on car derived vans ( park and loop. ) They have said that all offices will have these in all of the uk for walks further than 15 mins from the office ( basically a mile ). Now some park and loop offices have introduced it successfully and are doing longer spans and the feedback has been ok. Others have had problems and of course their is the issue of some only having one driver etc.

However if you have had a Geo route revision introduced you will probably being doing MORE THAN A 3.5 HOUR SPAN NOW AS the standard for geo route is to measure 3.5 hour from the first to last point of delivery without taking into account replinishment time. Once you add all the replishment time that is needed then it is likely to be more than 4 hours. Royal Mail no longer add replinsihment time as they dont believe that it is needed when all offices introduce park and loop. However this is a joke as walking to meet the van or back if you only have one driver adds time as well.

But Daz is right with the question . the agreement wont compell to move to a longer span but you will have to justify a full time job if the indoor work has reduced as a result of WSM.

Now sometimes it does amaze me that some on here believe that we should have a national agreement which forces everyone to accept a one size fits all option ingnoring the fact not all offices are the same or have the same requirements or want the same things. This has never been acceptable in the union and every agreement which has ever been agreed allows for some local flexibility on certain aspects including times of attendance , types of attendance , earnings , annual leave selection , earning opportunites , part to full time mix , method of delivery and whole range of other things.

In 2003 the union agreed to move from 2 deliveries to one with a maximum span of 3.5 with certain inner city offices having a 3 hour span. This then allowed local offices to choose the type of duties and attendances they required.

This new national agreement will be no different there will be mandatory parts including health and safety requirements but will also allow local offices to have negotations on issues such as what spans they want they could have a variation to suit the office , the earnings , the attendances etc.

I would hazard a guess that if the union introduced an agreement which complusorly introduced the delivery model into every office without any local flexibility than there would be uproar within the union at a scale which has not been seen since the way forward tried to do the same.

[hairyjack]

Hello and merry xmas to you all. Does anyone know how i can download panorama and keep it permanently.

[norbert]

Hello and merry xmas to you all. Does anyone know how i can download panorama and keep it permanently.

http://po-ru.com/projects/iplayer-downloader/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/h ... er_desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ( That's the important one - the others are how to get round DRM and make a DVD )

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/forums/index ... forumid=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 158AAJ95QG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the problem is they've got DRM ( Digital Rights Management ) protection on them so that protection has to be taken off . I think ? the DRM protection will kick in after 30 days on the downloaded file on your Hard Drive .

[hairyjack]

Thanks Norbert.

[axeman]

And just where are the toilets 'dingo' no good reiterating crap from your manifest ...why should we go ask the local super market, garage etc it's our fault it's r.m's problem !! longer delivery spans can only add to problems encountered it needs looking at not just swept under the nearest bush just the same as the meal reliefs we are entitled to just because a few runners don't take them

[fishtank]

As it seems to be acceptable to simply repeat your posts.

dingo wrote
"Remember there were 680 revisons put into Royal Mail in 2009 only 440 were by executive action."
dingo wrote
"across the UK there are now 145 agreements where Royal Mail had taken executive action."

Does that mean after 6 WEEKS there are still 295 offices without agreement.
Where is the PEC, the independant chair, ACAS, the union.

What did the review say about this?
Why do we not hear the call for a return to Industrial Action.
Was the EA,and the local and then national industrial action just a means to an end dingo.
Royal Mail needed an agreement to implement the huge number of changes planned for 2010.
The CWU needed an agreement to supercede the unmitigated disaster that was P&M 2007.
It would certainly appear that Executive Action,Bullying and Harassment by management and unreasonable workloads have been forgotten by the union.
But trust me dingo they have not been forgotten by the membership.

[upmyroad]

I can see lot's of reasons as to why dingo want's us to do longer delivery spans. But I would really love to know how many of the people that want us to work like donkies will be doing these deliveries.
Instead of negotiating more work for us why don't you do what we are paying the union to do and get us better conditions instead of worse. This union is going backwards not forwards.

[Exrep]

If the union negoatiate longer delivery spans for us and still we have time left in our duty ( which there wont be) they should also throw in a pair of overalls and a few brushes and we can go sweep chimneys. Even better if any of us have young children the union can get them on board and we can send them down the old mine shafts for a 9 hrs shift.

The union are so far out of touch with it members now its frightening have they not listened to us.

[Fluke]

For me the argument is not longer delivery spans. It’s all about a fair, balanced and achievable workload that we can still do at 65+. Whether the weights on or off the shoulder I worry about walking for 5 hours a day, 5 days a week, at an unrealistic pace with an unreasonable workload. I can see a future where the over 50's are bullied out of their jobs for not being quick enough. I will however, wait and see what the final agreement looks like before I decide to resign as a rep and jack the union.

[Martin Walsh]

Look maybe its me but at what stage have I said the union is negotiating for you to have a longer span ?

If you care to read my post you will see what I said is that the option of moving past 3.5 hours will be there for local offices to choose if the members within that office decide that is what they want. Surely that is what the union should be about allowing the members within an office the right to influence whats span they have in the future.

In addition it is accepted that unless you have park and loop in your office the ability to move much past 3.5 hours is differcult maybe the maxiumn without the right equipment being in place will be 4 hours. We know that offices have moved of their own free will to longer spans regardless of the national agreement of 3.5 hours.

Now fishtank since the 5th November their have been a 140 agreements reached in the uk. Of the remainder some are walk testing and re -potting which is time consuming but have a way forward but dont yet have an agreement , some are still negotating on issues such as surplus staff , resgins and some are in the disagreement procedure.

Bearing in mind it took Royal Mail most of the year to implement by executive action it was never going to be possible to reach agreement in 6 weeks on some of the major revison changes such as geo route. However i believe there will be a joint statement reached in the next few days which will influence things so watch this space.

Now Axeman the issue of toilets will be within the design of the duties and spans. so is an important issue that reps should cover when agreeing the duties.

Up my road you obviously have not read the post , the union is trying to acchieve an agreement on no complusory redundancies , an agreement on MTSF which assist in this process and provide better payments for excess travelling ,relocation., A shorter working week , an increase in basic pay , a possilbe increase in pay ment for working Saturdays , a 52 week per year supplement for door 2 door , increasing the hourly rate for future pay benefits, A simplified pay package which improves basic pay by trapping allowances which are being lossed as a reuslt of nights going etc

In addtion it is trying reach an agreement which maximise full time jobs.

So up my road the union has this agenda because Branch"s around the UK have supported and voted on these issues at a conference of the union.

.