ALL OF YOU WITH GENUINE GRIEVANCES MUST LAUNCH ONE NOW

[MinisterofCucumber]

Hello everyone, hope you are doing fine.

Firstly, there are some very good union reps out there. However, if your union rep is lazy or a collaborator, you can fight injustice by using the grievance procedure and refusing to go to any meetings with management.

If you fight, you will win, with or without the help of the union.

Industrial Relations are poor in the Royal Mail because management fails to stick to their policies and the union lets them get away with it. It is my opinion that this completely avoidable situation has been deliberately created by Mandelson and his followers.

The Labour party serves Mandelson.The CWU is dominated by members of the Labour party. The Labour government employed Leighton and Crozier, neither of whom would be your first choice if you wanted to build an organisation with good industrial relations.

Mandelson's objective is to get rid of the postal monopoly in the U.K. The 1997 EU postal directive commits the U.K. to get rid of the postal monopoly by 2012. Labour, Conservatives and Liberals all voted for it in the EU parliament as essential for the creation of the infrastruture of a European superstate. Mandelson's problem is that he has to convince the public to get rid of something he is already committed to getting rid of, our much loved Royal Mail. If he doesn't we will be thrown out of Europe.

So far, Mandelson is winning. His propaganda machine has spun the strike to convince people that industrial relations are beyond repair. This was the message in the state broadcast Panorama. Similarly, Roy Mayall is presented as a heroic figure in a past that will never return.

We must convince people that losing Royal Mail is not inevitable in the same way that losing our final salary pensions and our childrens' right to free Higher Education is not inevitable. We must fight Mandelson.

Don't rely on the union. Everyone with a genuine grievance must raise one. Keep it simple. Refuse to attend any meetings with management and conduct the whole procedure in writing. If you need help, ask on this message board.

Good Luck.

[Mercian]

you can fight injustice by using the grievance procedure and refusing to go to any meetings with management.

Good sentiment but should be tempered with a little caution. The RM grievance procedure http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... hp?id=1202" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... hp?id=1204" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
may call for a meeting at Stage 1 but does call for a meeting if you got to stage 2

I may be wrong but If you refuse all meetings it is possible that RM will look at this as non-compliance with the procedure and summarily dismiss the grievance. Can any of the Union Reps who frequent this board confirm or deny this ?

If you don't trust your Union Rep to represent your best interest in a meeting then ask for a Union Branch official or take in a trusted colleague and don't be afraid to ask for adjournments if you need time to look up RM policy or Employment Law.

[Big Daz]

The UK monopoly went a few years back.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Big Daz, the monopoly has gone but the point of democracy is that if enough people want something to change, then the change happens. The Royal Mail monopoly used to benefit nearly everyone in the country, especially small businesses.

At the moment our objective should be to get the management to stick to its policies and to get our union officials to do what we pay them to do.

This is achievable.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Mercian, I put in a stage 2 grievance which included the following:

"I believe my grievance and proposed resolution are straightforward so I feel it is not necessary to have a meeting. I am sure you will appreciate that this is a very busy time of year for us and I would not like to be taken away from my work if possible. Please write to me if you need me to clarify any aspect of my grievance that may not be clear.

I am confident that you will find a way to resolve this grievance and I look forward to receiving your decision in writing."

Yesterday, I got a reply thanking me for my acknowledgement letter and detailing the written decision. Meetings in the grievance procedure are not compulsory.

In my opinion, the grievance procedure has been designed in management's favour. They need to get enough material from you to create 'grey areas' in which the interpretation can be mucked about with. Meetings provide this grey area. Also, meetings are intimidating for most people who find it uncomfortable to complain to someone in a position of power over them.

I think union officials should help members with their written communications rather than encourage them to go to meetings with management.

[Mercian]

Mercian, I put in a stage 2 grievance which included the following:

"I believe my grievance and proposed resolution are straightforward so I feel it is not necessary to have a meeting. I am sure you will appreciate that this is a very busy time of year for us and I would not like to be taken away from my work if possible. Please write to me if you need me to clarify any aspect of my grievance that may not be clear.

I am confident that you will find a way to resolve this grievance and I look forward to receiving your decision in writing."

Yesterday, I got a reply thanking me for my acknowledgement letter and detailing the written decision. Meetings in the grievance procedure are not compulsory.

In my opinion, the grievance procedure has been designed in management's favour. They need to get enough material from you to create 'grey areas' in which the interpretation can be mucked about with. Meetings provide this grey area. Also, meetings are intimidating for most people who find it uncomfortable to complain to someone in a position of power over them.

I think union officials should help members with their written communications rather than encourage them to go to meetings with management.

I wholly agree with the sentiments and if the grievance and resolution are straightforward then yes, no problem with just writing. Unfortunately not everything is straight forward and clear cut - lots of grievances are complicated and more often than not, a 2 minute verbal explanation of a problem is far better than trying to compile a 20 page dissertation which is more likely to miss relevant points or issues. We all know how the written word can be taken out of context........ Further more, by conducting everything in writing, this can significantly protract the resolution of the grievance.

For sure - every process in RM is designed for the business' benefit which is why taking a trusted colleague or rep in with you to a meeting is vital, but to advocate just not going to any meeting is a bit too extreme (IMHO) which may cause complications further down the line.

As a former Learning Rep my experience is that most people find it easier and would prefer to talk through their issues rather than write them down as the writing intimidates them far more.

While I agree that the grievance procedure should be more widely used, I think we have different ideas on how the procedure should be used.

[Victim Of Cucumber]

Minister Of Cucumber

[MinisterofCucumber]

Mercian, I agree there are more ways than one to skin a cat, having said that (Larry David), my methods have worked. If the issue is complicated, then break it down into single point steps.

For sure - every process in RM is designed for the business' benefit

I can't believe you think we should accept this. The union should ensure that the grievance procedure is fair and does not benefit one party more than the other. This really matters because we are not allowed to go to tribunal unless we have already exhausted the grievance procedure. It looks like we have lost a right and I believe the union should challenge this.

[Mercian]

Mercian, I agree there are more ways than one to skin a cat, having said that (Larry David), my methods have worked. If the issue is complicated, then break it down into single point steps.

For sure - every process in RM is designed for the business' benefit

I can't believe you think we should accept this. The union should ensure that the grievance procedure is fair and does not benefit one party more than the other. This really matters because we are not allowed to go to tribunal unless we have already exhausted the grievance procedure. It looks like we have lost a right and I believe the union should challenge this.

I can't believe that you clip quotes and then derive the assumption I am in agreement that we should accept the system as it is - the reality is far from this. Work the system and the system will be shown for what it is. Then hopefully it will get changed for the better. If you think the Union should be addressing the whole Grievance Procedure issue more, have you written to your Local, Branch or National reps with your concerns and suggestions ? I know I have.

Like many of us within RM, you have probably heard of, know directly first hand of or even been involved in instances where the grievance procedure has been followed, exhausted and then gone to tribunal where it has been found on so many occasions that RM have not followed their own policies. Now, if the procedure does favour one party more than the other, this will come out at Tribunal. Never forget - if a grievance decision goes against you there is always the right to appeal all the way to tribunal - I'm not so sure that RM have the same facility through stages 1-3.
The reasoning for not immediately jumping to Tribunal without first exhausting other options must surely be better time wise and financially so that a mutual resolution can be achieved in a much less stressful way.

[La Poste]

Like many of us within RM, you have probably heard of, know directly first hand of or even been involved in instances where the grievance procedure has been followed, exhausted and then gone to tribunal where it has been found on so many occasions that RM have not followed their own policies. Now, if the procedure does favour one party more than the other, this will come out at Tribunal. Never forget - if a grievance decision goes against you there is always the right to appeal all the way to tribunal - I'm not so sure that RM have the same facility through stages 1-3.
The reasoning for not immediately jumping to Tribunal without first exhausting other options must surely be better time wise and financially so that a mutual resolution can be achieved in a much less stressful way.

If you have any information on tribunals do us a favour and put it in the tribunal thread in the union room cheers.
Cos I don't want to be the only one putting information up that I am not entirely sure of.

[Mercian]

As soon as I get works computer access back, I'll try and post what I can from RM intranet side of things.
TBT has posted a comprehensive list of Tribunal info in the Downloads section - I will see if I can find anything to add to it.

I currently have two grievances in at stage 3 and one at stage 2 - all of which will probably get to ET so as I learn more about the process Ill let you have the info.

[flaminmoses]

the greivance route is a scam but you do need to follow procedure.
check with acas first what are your options ie.would you go to a tribunal etc

just make sure you keep notes etc incase you do end up down the tribunal route.