18 DAYS STRIKING AND FOR WHAT

[DirtyHarry]

Full-time subs, fishtank? In my office the numbers of full-timers paying union subs, is diminishing. The numbers of part-time, mostly Eastern European, non-members, and who consistantly refuse approaches to join the union, and who scab every single strike day called, is a growing, and growing, and growing.
The CWU must wake up from it's inertia, NOW, not tomorrow, not next week, not next month, not next year, but, NOW.

[Night Tonic]

The business of this union is to ensure that it's members terms & conditions of employment are not impaired in any way, shape, or form.

Hardly. There has to be flexibility when the business is under so much pressure too and that is what the CWU is doing, compromising. If you seriously think the union can lay down a set of demands and have them all met, thats dillusional. Conditions of employment have always changed and will continue to do so. Nothing is written in stone and especially when its losing business.

[fishtank]

The business of this union is to ensure that it's members terms & conditions of employment are not impaired in any way, shape, or form.

Hardly. There has to be flexibility when the business is under so much pressure too and that is what the CWU is doing, compromising. If you seriously think the union can lay down a set of demands and have them all met, thats dillusional. Conditions of employment have always changed and will continue to do so. Nothing is written in stone and especially when its losing business.

I think most people can grasp that NT but there has to be a line in the sand.You cannot simply negotiate your members terms downward forever.If you do you become a poorly supported association not a union.

[Night Tonic]

And who decides what is downward and what is reasonable for the business. I've never yet encountered a government that brings in a new rule and then says "what does everyone else think?". In the end its up to the PEC to decide whats the lesser of any perceived evils and go with that otherise you go round in circles. What you have to accept is that striking doesn't entitle a member to make crucial decisions. You could have a ballot I suppose but someone has to make a decision somewhere. They have.

[fishtank]

And who decides what is downward and what is reasonable for the business. I've never yet encountered a government that brings in a new rule and then says "what does everyone else think?". In the end its up to the PEC to decide whats the lesser of any perceived evils and go with that otherise you go round in circles. What you have to accept is that striking doesn't entitle a member to make crucial decisions. You could have a ballot I suppose but someone has to make a decision somewhere. They have.

For the survival of OUR union you need 2 things,the continued existance of the business and the continued support of the membership.
It is a balance NT,If you keep taking from EITHER side the union ceases to exist.
I think many members are rightly worried we are at that tipping point.

[dvbuk55]

And who decides what is downward and what is reasonable for the business. I've never yet encountered a government that brings in a new rule and then says "what does everyone else think?". In the end its up to the PEC to decide whats the lesser of any perceived evils and go with that otherise you go round in circles. What you have to accept is that striking doesn't entitle a member to make crucial decisions. You could have a ballot I suppose but someone has to make a decision somewhere. They have.

For the survival of OUR union you need 2 things,the continued existance of the business and the continued support of the membership.
It is a balance NT,If you keep taking from EITHER side the union ceases to exist.
I think many members are rightly worried we are at that tipping point.

Spot on fh - but NT is wrong on one vital point - the PEC do not decide, they are our eyes and ears, it is we who decide by ballot - however there does seem to be a big brother attitude, that they know best - when unfortunately they do not. What we should do is hold an independant ballot by all members to switch subs from the CWU to something like that womens organisation that bakes cakes, now that is a worthwhile cause.

[DirtyHarry]

The business of this union is to ensure that it's members terms & conditions of employment are not impaired in any way, shape, or form.

Hardly. There has to be flexibility when the business is under so much pressure too and that is what the CWU is doing, compromising. If you seriously think the union can lay down a set of demands and have them all met, thats dillusional. Conditions of employment have always changed and will continue to do so. Nothing is written in stone and especially when its losing business.

Au contraire, my dear Night Tonic, realism on the part of management has to be key, whatever perceived hardships the likes of Crozier believe RM are facing. Management must recognise that the employees are mainly made up of people born into the human race, not mules whose workloads, no matter how heavy, can be increased whenever the fancy takes.
Management must put plan B into action, assuming such self-aggrandising idiots have a plan B, which I very much doubt, but hey, that's not my problem, nor any other member's problem for that matter.

The CWU have tried, foolishly in my opinion, to engender some sort of partnership with Crozier and his gang of lick-spittles, and failed, miserably. Now is the time to re-draw the battle lines, to resurrect the them v us scenario, and let those whose first priority is to look after it's members interests, do so.......and those whose first priority is to wilfully turn a first-class public service into a privateers play-thing, try.

[clashcityrocker]

Spot on fh - but NT is wrong on one vital point - the PEC do not decide, they are our eyes and ears, it is we who decide by ballot - however there does seem to be a big brother attitude, that they know best - when unfortunately they do not. What we should do is hold an independant ballot by all members to switch subs from the CWU to something like that womens organisation that bakes cakes, now that is a worthwhile cause.

But it was the PEC who decided to suspend the strikes.So given that we were on strike how could we have a ballot on suspending the strikes? Get TNT to deliver the ballot papers? And how long should we stay on strike to fully understand all the ramifications of the agreement?
What you appear to want is for you personally to be consulted on every aspect of every deal.
You run along and join the Women's Institute.Maybe they'll let you have one of their calendars.

[Danelectro]

And who decides what is downward and what is reasonable for the business. I've never yet encountered a government that brings in a new rule and then says "what does everyone else think?". In the end its up to the PEC to decide whats the lesser of any perceived evils and go with that otherise you go round in circles. What you have to accept is that striking doesn't entitle a member to make crucial decisions. You could have a ballot I suppose but someone has to make a decision somewhere. They have.

I tell you who decides what is downward and reasonable for the business as you put it-a scouse socialist who thinks the free market is here to stay until sometime in the future, when we are are all real proper poor people we might have the balls and insight to do something about it.Until then its strictly come dancing and a job that adds up to a pile of arsemince.

[fishtank]

ccr the PEC do not operate in a vacuum.They are given imformation and and make a decision based on that imformation.
That imformation is supposed to come from us fed through a network of reps.

Now,given the continued problems throughout the country and the fact that dingo himself admitted the negotiations were going nowhere and London was calling for
re-instatement of national industrial action can you explain how they came to this decision


The Postal Executive unanimously agreed that it was essential to continue negotiations in line with the independent process and try to make significant progress by early December as set out in the Interim Agreement.



All we are asking for is clarification and accountability

[clashcityrocker]

ccr the PEC do not operate in a vacuum.They are given imformation and and make a decision based on that imformation.
That imformation is supposed to come from us fed through a network of reps.

Dingo also said he had been at meetings in different areas and the responses were different.
Monkeyboy has been on saying he has had walks put back in.
You would have to ask the area reps what information they fed back to the PEC.Obviously nationwide the picture was of enough progress to continue talking,with weekly updates.
I am sure you will get your clarification in the fullness of time.
And while you say that is all you are asking for, others on here have been asking for a lot more. (And then spouting off about leaving the union).

[Cut Off King]

Not the only quality lacking. CWU has no choice right now and even Hayes has said change is inevitable. Anyone who mistakenly thought Royal Mail was going to buckle under union threats may be disappointed but not very well informed either.

If RM didn't buckle under pressure, then why didn't they just ignore the strikes and keep pushing forward their anti union agenda ?

FACT - RM we're REELING under pressure from the almost 100% support for the strikes! THATS WHY THEY WENT BACK TO THE NEGOTIATION TABLE !

However as most people both on this site & and in offices will tell you, the CWU leadership failed to press home the advantage.

BUT don't think that the members up and down the country won't stand up to RM if they revert back to bullying !

Whether the CWU HQ sanction it or not , you won't bully us without provoking a reaction!

[dvbuk55]

Spot on fh - but NT is wrong on one vital point - the PEC do not decide, they are our eyes and ears, it is we who decide by ballot - however there does seem to be a big brother attitude, that they know best - when unfortunately they do not. What we should do is hold an independant ballot by all members to switch subs from the CWU to something like that womens organisation that bakes cakes, now that is a worthwhile cause.

But it was the PEC who decided to suspend the strikes.So given that we were on strike how could we have a ballot on suspending the strikes? Get TNT to deliver the ballot papers? And how long should we stay on strike to fully understand all the ramifications of the agreement?
What you appear to want is for you personally to be consulted on every aspect of every deal.
You run along and join the Women's Institute.Maybe they'll let you have one of their calendars.

Ah yes - you seem to know the Womens Institute well - you aren't on the calendar by any chance? I was referring to agreements on a ballot not a joint statement of intent - it would have been nice to have seen what it was that we accepted as proof positive that Royal Mail were serious in their intent to negotiate. There are far more people who are sick to death of the duplicity surrounding the so called agreements than those who support them.

[brothermagrew]

Surely at the end of the day regardless of any interim agreement when a full and final agreement has been reached it will then have to be put to the membership for endorsement or rejection in another ballot. Then and only then will the CWU membership have their say.

[fishtank]

Surely at the end of the day regardless of any interim agreement when a full and final agreement has been reached it will then have to be put to the membership for endorsement or rejection in another ballot. Then and only then will the CWU membership have their say.

If that is the case brotherbrothermagrew why bother with the interim agreement at all.
An endorsment from membership does not guarantee a decent and fair agreement for all.
As i'm sure you are aware there are many ways to sell an agreement. P&M 2007 for instance.