Sure we can

[Tman]

please come back Mr New Labour , T - man all is forgiven , even Private Fraser or Lord Haw Haw / Hellmail ? -

Never been away Norbert, but is the same old same old worth the aditional wear on the keyboard to answer?
"Not really", is the answer to that.
Same old faces screeching the same "insults" soon becomes boring, as NT said.

Name amended at members request Norbet not Nobbie please - warning next time

Give yourself a warning too then, 'cos his name ain't "Norbet" either.....

[TrueBlueTerrier]

please come back Mr New Labour , T - man all is forgiven , even Private Fraser or Lord Haw Haw / Hellmail ? -

Never been away Norbert, but is the same old same old worth the aditional wear on the keyboard to answer?
"Not really", is the answer to that.
Same old faces screeching the same "insults" soon becomes boring, as NT said.

Name amended at members request Norbet not Nobbie please - warning next time

Give yourself a warning too then, 'cos his name ain't "Norbet" either.....

A bit Pedantic - I missed an R not changed most of his name.

Please remember Postmans warning about if people become to much like hard work........

---- if it was meant to funny - sorry you cant carry that off either

[OnAFlyer]

Flyer me and you could go around in circles all day long and still we wont see eye to eye thankfully.

We're more similar than you think, I just haven't experienced in my office what you have in yours..

Anyway my original post was in response to what PJ wrote about TNT ETHOS and motto but for some unknown reason you jumped on the wagon and to make matters worse i didnt even get a response from PJ on my long drawn out post, that was also my reasoning asking whether you were PJ as you seem to be protecting him in some way and now i wont even get a response.

Sorry, I just replied to what you said about me - as far as TNT goes, I agree that in no way do we want to follow their model - PT staff and sh*t wages aren't what I want.

How eveythink is rosy in your office i do not know .The reason i am the way i am is since the second week in august our office has had a horrendous time that i beleive you couldnt even manage to imagine, and for that reason me and you will never agree but please next time let PJ responde to what ive wrote and not you as i think you took the chance away from him.

Like I said, there is a massive difference within delivery offices, but also with individual posties as well. I was off a couple of weeks ago and one of my customers said she got her mail at 3pm every day. I've done the walk for 7 years and have never been anywhere near that time, despite doing the walk virtually crippled with knee problems sometimes (genetic problem not walk related). But the fact that almost everyone in my office gets done on time shows there's a big difference between ours and some other offices.

I've been to my parents house (different Del office) after work and seen a a postie opening a pouch box with 3 bags still in it at 2pm - I don't want that to happen in mine or any office which is why I went on strike.

Notice how i didnt use red was that to show your annoyance in your post.

No, the red is so I can answer each part of your post and it's easier to tell who's written what. I can do blue if you want?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The best way to quote someone is to start a post.

Go to the part of the post you want to quote.

Highlight it and right click selecting copy

Got to the post window and paste the copied text. Then straight to the quote button while the copied text is still highlighted or highlight it again.

Once you have pressed the quote button this will appear

and the start and [/quote ] at end (there is no space between e and ]

If you want to add the persons name then between the e and ] then add ="MembersName" with the " " at each end and a = before the first "

you then get this

Use the slider to the part of the post you want to quote.

when you press the submit button

When quoting full posts never remove either of the square brackets or it corrupts the quote.

[peejay14]

PJ, this is the "stand with my hands in my pockets, talk a lot of crap and collect my wages" bunch. Even the news section has sunk to Socialist Worker meaningless rants. You can't debate with the uninspired

Uninspired ....those of you are just following the 'vision' of crazier and his cronies. It's you that need guidence you see we know the illthought out plans that royal fail percive as 'modernisation' do not work but you go back and sit in the office and offer no resistance to a regime that is set on destroying the true function of royal fail ' boss '

Sorry PJ - too earnest for me - even a former HR manager was scathingly critical of RM's deliberate bombastic brinksmanship policy , they tried in 2003 , 2007 & 9 & it never really worked - Hooper was scathingly critical too - " lacking the expertise to run a mail operation , failure to take people with them " . Mandy - " a deficient gene pool " .

No vision , no imagination , no nothing .

Crozier was shown the door by the FA & told to resign , otherwise it would be messy . Leighton's " new wave " management style was also deemed to be a failure ( Even the Union Bashing Hellmail site was critical of the plasma screens ) . That's why a more conservative chairman was appointed .

They call huddles - muddles at ASDA . That's the problem - RM is not a supermarket .

Higson was brought in as a union busting hatchet man - he didn't come over very well , sounding if he was reading a shopping list out . Tolhurst just sounds like a very over promoted mediocrity - the Peter Principle taken to literal extremes with RM

Another hated senior manager resigned in 2007 , saying RM's business plan was suicidal - by Xmas many of RM's board had left " to persue other careers " . Then in the background in 2009 you had Mandy trying to settle childish petty vendettas , some going back years - playground politics .

That's where the buck stops - that's what has to be looked at . Not exactly happy clappy , corporate "utopia" RM

This is a strange one... You seem to be replying to me, but you have quoted someone else.

Anyway, let me now perform a miracle before your very eyes... I shall attempt to reply using fewer words than the post I am replying to... though I can't gaurantee the quality of what I say, and so I forfeit any responsibility for harm that this may cause...

Ahem , while what you have to say norbert looks very knowledgeable, I'm afraid that your reply goes right over my head. Too much information, if you ask me.
To be a postie, you need to have two eyes on the job, 6 arms, 33 legs, and 50 sets of lungs.
You seem to have one eye on the management and one eye on the job, and to me it seems no wonder that you find yourself frustrated and dissatisfied with the nature of the job.

[Pinky 1]

Oh come on pj, you're having a laugh, right ?
You say you think Norbert is very knowledgeable, and his opinion has gone right over your head.
Does that make you incapable of replying, even if his opinions are so far away from yours ?
And to say his post has too much information in it, may i suggest you read back on some of your own posts .......

Anyway, it's chucking it down here in Wales, but thanks for giving me something to smile at today ...

[norbert]

Oh come on pj, you're having a laugh, right ?
You say you think Norbert is very knowledgeable, and his opinion has gone right over your head.
Does that make you incapable of replying, even if his opinions are so far away from yours ?
And to say his post has too much information in it, may i suggest you read back on some of your own posts .......

Anyway, it's chucking it down here in Wales, but thanks for giving me something to smile at today ...

It's all about the bigger picture as most people know here . You've got a very top down and regimented 70's command and control style of management . If a executive board member or director says something it goes end of .

If a director says they'll all go to the toilet at 1400 hrs , it will happen end of & woe betide anyone who doesn't go .

Even UNITE have compared it to a 70's car factory , there is a lot of bullying and pressure working it's way down the food chain to the blue shirts .

There's a lot of frustrated people with issues about RM " management " on here - I do hope that PJ doesn't encounter the RM system .

To me that sounded like corporate B/S - know your place , tug your forelock and doff your cap and RM always know best - turning the clock back years , well past the 70's where the CWU is supposed to be stuck in . It's a form of inverted snobbery in fact .

Lots and lots of very , very long winded ways of saying we must all bend over and stop being "negative" ? & toe the Scurrier line ?

Be I ever so humble , Sir , :cfo :mfo

[peejay14]

( I find myself having less to say in reply to your posts, Norbert. I think that this is because your views are something of a foil for mine, and my personal approach to the current problem between the company and management is somewhat defined by yours, in that we are approaching the problem in such different ways that although they could not co-exist in the same solution (in other words, we would need to compromise) they complement one another by having nothing in common except that they are both heart-felt offerings laid on the table around which ACAS will encourage our so-called leaders (and they'll have to go one better than us, we are exchanging view-points in a calm and level-headed manner but we are poles apart, and without abandoning our principals we could not rule together), encourage our leaders I say, to bite the bullet and lead us out of this dilemma, stronger and ready to move on. Let's hope that ACAS can facilitate, what alone our leaders could not, a strategy that will unite us and give us a company and a service to believe in. Let's hope that this juncture will be a turning-point in the fortunes of the company, and that all the industrial unrest and general discomfort is not a painful end but a transformation. )

Again, to be blunt (for me, at least), let me observe a contrast between our stand-points, what that might mean, and whether you think it is valid.

You talk about an evolution of management, and how one generation can differ from another. Well, why not turn that same lens around to US, the workers. As the current batch, our beliefs and expectations are dissimilar, as anyone can read. What this means is that you are prepared to strike whereas I am not. Now one approach suits the designs of the current batch of managers, and one does not. You talk of differing managerial approaches too, well we simply have differing approaches to our job. Which approach to the job will out-last the other in the evolutionary process that you prescribe to ?

[POSTMAN]

peejay,the crux of it is......
Strike to get an agreement,don't strike,then your job will be unrecognizable to what it is now in a way that you obviously can't see,and will not believe when it kicks you in the arse.

[axeman]

There's a song that just about sums up peejay's way of thinking............... 'supertramp's dreamer' .........................'''dreamer nothing but a dreamer'''

[peejay14]

By picking on the management, I would suggest that the union and its pro-strike members are bullies in their own right. I think that the most effective way for the union and its pro-strike members to get their way with the management, instead of striking, is simply to do their job as best they can and prove whether or not too much is being asked of them that way, then take it from there. Yes, it can be said that has been tried, but now that we are ready to strike then it can be said that the first way also failed (and building upon failure only compounds that failure). I say that striking is easier than remaining at your post and working at the problem. Two wrongs do not make a right , hence why the situation remains unresolved and everything is still in the balance.

Balance... So let me balance the above with the following, since I am not taking sides; I am just watching as things unfold. There is such a term for those like me, and that is neutral. (I am part of the proceedings, but I am choosing at the moment to use my voice and not my vote.) In such a partisan forum as this there are few who avoid flack, and dissension even amongst union members on here sees non-conformist members (‘No‘ voters) slated by the main party (the 'yes' voters) for disobeying the will of their decision-makers by choosing to work through the strike they actually voted against. I‘ve said before, that for the time being at least, there is a prevailing mood on here summed up by the expression ‘You‘re either with us, or against us‘...

The management can put right their perceived wrong by actually taking an interest in what goes on outdoors and starting to listen to the reports from the front line, and so avoid disaster by heeding the warnings of their own people. The management needs to turn-around their reputation of not respecting or trusting the work force when the work force genuinely has a problem with what it is being asked to do, and alter the perception the majority has of them of being heavy-handed and more interested in meeting paper targets than setting realistic challenges, as this has ultimately brought about the strike.

A little more mutual respect between management and work force, and willingness to work together through the good and the hard times, will take the company further and out of the current fix.

The work force needn't have put the company in this predicament (needn't have gone on strike and needn't threaten further strikes), and the management could have avoided the strike and could avoid further such industrial action by measuring the impact on the work force of its implementations.

There's too much pressure in the system, leading to excessive give-and-take - when give-and-take can be a good thing, especially in a business where new things are being tried out. The pendulum has swung so far that it has damaged both company and union, and it has taken ACAS to step in and say:

' Come on guys, there's more than pride at stake here. (Why not take a look at RMC and see just how much the work force are hurting?) ',

for a period of calm to transpire.

[clashcityrocker]

Even by your standards peejay, this is outrageous.
Have you ever stopped to consider why we work a 40 hour week? It is because we BULLIED (in your words) the managers into it.Those jolly nice capitalists did not sit down one day and decide to make things better for the workers, the workers went out and fought (and died) for their causes.Do you have absolutely no historical context to the guff you write?
The CWU is part of the trade union movement - a movement that has played a large part in the progressive policies of the last century.
The management are part of the apparatus of repression.They represent regressive politics.
In your world we would not have universal suffrage, and slavery would not have been abolished.Your children would still be working down the mines and we would still be delivering mail on Xmas day.
The more I read your posts the more I am convinced you are not an adult at all, but possibly a bright 12 year old.
So here is your homework - when was the the last time postmen delivered on xmas day?
Perhaps you will begin to understand that the advances in our working conditions are relatively freshly won and are under attack.That is why you cannot be Switzerland and pretend you can be neutral.If you are not defending, you are aiding and abetting the attackers.
You posted the same crap in the "what kind of postie are you" thread.
Imagine you are sitting at a bus stop late at night, there is a young girl there and 3 blokes come along and start hassling her.What do you do? Do you " choose your battles carefully"? Or do you stand up and face the consequences? Sometimes your battles choose you.

[norbert]

the poor , poor Senior & Middle managers being bullied on RMC & by the Union .

The worst thing that happens is that some bullying managers get a taste of their own medicine , most of the time criticism can be vicious - that's about it .

Try reading the Sawyer report - it's not like this " Brave new World " in Planet Courier . RM only hears what it wants to hear - all the Emperor's new clothes and RM knows best & that's from the Manager's Union .

Even a former Senior RM HR manager was scathingly critical of RM's brinksmanship policy .

[Ernie Shoe]

C,mon guys and ACAS.

We need to sing from the same hymn sheet, ALL roll up our sleeves, walk throught the gates as managers and workers arm in arm and give our great British public and government a christmas to be proud of.

Lets not be Scrooges and expect paid overtime, xmas bonuses and the like. We are paid a wage - be greatful. Leave bonuses to those leading our great business.
It is now December and we must put all outside obstacles such as friends, family and hobbies / interests onto the back burner and hit the ground running, sweating blood and tears for our great leaders.

If miners can go down mineshafts then working well into the darkness each night for 3 weeks should be no problem. As I said earlier do we really need overtime? - Our company is stretched financially as it is. I say, let us be flexible. we can have the time back in the summer when our pouches are virtually empty.
Let us all posties engage in some blue sky thinking. Our glasses are half full, we have work. Breath it, smell it, Enjoy it.

I say to all of you we must all be client focused, quality driven, engage in big picture, out of the box thinking to drive this great company forward.
Don't ignore your managers - take time every morning to touch base with your superior. Be dynamic, be proud, be positive.

PEEJAY I SALUTE YOU

[clashcityrocker]

I salute peejay too.
It's just that mine is a two fingered salute.