Briefing report from -Paul Fisher Area Delivery Rep for TA.

[clashcityrocker]

Yeah Dingo, when????

I think dingo's posts are by far the most informative on this site.I would like to thank him for taking the time and effort to keep us informed when others do not.The last time he was on delivery seems irrelevant.A cheap personal attack that really does not belong on this forum.Does everyone now have to state when they were last on delivery? I was out on delivery yesterday.You?

[POSTMAN]

Yeah Dingo, when????

I think dingo's posts are by far the most informative on this site.I would like to thank him for taking the time and effort to keep us informed when others do not.The last time he was on delivery seems irrelevant.A cheap personal attack that really does not belong on this forum.Does everyone now have to state when they were last on delivery? I was out on delivery yesterday.You?

Agree.
And if it weren't for him,lovejoy and a few others we would be none the wiser.Theses guys do more than you think.

[POSTMAN]

Yeah Dingo, when????

Does not concern you,you are no longer in the job or a member of the CWU.We've had this before,now leave it please.

[dvbuk55]

I wouldn't disagree that both Lovejoy and Dingo provide information and I won't discuss the reasons for that here.

What is important though is that they also have an opinion and I reserve the right of reply if I do not agree with their view on what I see is the situation. We all may well work for the same organisation but I hold serious reservations that we are all subject to the same working conditions and as the old saying goes you have to speak as you find. If people don't like what I have to say then don't read it.

[fishtank]

Information, noun
"Knowledge communicated concerning some particular fact, subject, or event; that of which one is apprised or told; intelligence, news. spec. contrasted with data." (from Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed., 1989)



Propaganda, noun
"The systematic propagation of information or ideas by an interested party, esp. in a tendentious way in order to encourage or instil a particular attitude or response. Also, the ideas, doctrines, etc., disseminated thus; the vehicle of such propagation." (from Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed., 1989)


I'm sorry Postman and if this results in a ban then so be it but dingo's posts IMHO certainly owe more to the second defintion than the first.
I do believe it is done with the best intention of protecting his members and propaganda should not be confused with misinformation.
I will continue to question the motives of the union i pay to represent me if i believe those motives are suspect.
That does NOT mean i will not support my fellow MEMBERS when the time comes.

[clashcityrocker]

I'm sorry Postman and if this results in a ban then so be it but dingo's posts IMHO certainly owe more to the second defintion than the first.
I do believe it is done with the best intention of protecting his members and propaganda should not be confused with misinformation.
I will continue to question the motives of the union i pay to represent me if i believe those motives are suspect.
That does NOT mean i will not support my fellow MEMBERS when the time comes.

It is good to question but there is a time and a place.
By using a public forum you give sustenance to the anti-union brigade and become part of their propaganda.It is impossible to tell the good questioning apart from the snide questioning, - the I will leave the union and strikebreak brigade.
I would rather read dingo's propaganda than wrangler's.
Don't moan.Agitate.

[POSTMAN]

Ha fish you wont get banned,you're part of the furniture here mate.

dvbuk55,you are quite welcome to say what you like as are many others.

Maybe i jumped in too quick with my last post,but i know that Dingo has been there and done it and also knows what is happening on the ground and speaks to many many frontline staff.

The problem that we have is that us from London have not had what you guys have had,and i critised Dingo and some of his posts when he 1st came on here mentioning the good of the P&M deal.

For 3 years i have been reading how bad it is up and down the country,and for the last 2 how bad it is with the P&M deal,and unless you are seriously in the know or are a member of RMC then us Londoners would be none the wiser.

The Union have f****d up big time imo and i have always thought that we should of had national strikes a long time ago,not just when scot got hit but way before that.

London are now helping to push for various parts of the deal and as a lot of you say for other parts of the country it is too late and that it's only being done for London.
But it's not a London deal,it's a NATIONAL one.

So what happens if we get a national agreement on park and loop,if the deal is 4hr walks and packets,and you are doing 4-15hr walks,packets and reg than you go with the national agreement and have a revision.

If the national agreement is a 70/30 split with FT & PT duties and you have different then you go with the national agreement and get it sorted.

If your start times are 'this' and the agreement is 'that' then you go with 'that'.
You get my drift,so even though you may think the horse has already bolted,with national agreements you can bring the horse back.

I do think other divisions and branches need to take a good look at themselves after what they have let slip through.And we have to make sure that it doesn't happen again!

We wont get everything we want but neither will RM,but what we get we have to make sure is not abused.

And once again we say,there needs to be more communication when whatever is sorted!

[dvbuk55]

I am critical - to me there is only right and wrong, black and white.

What galls me is that the same people who advised the "interim agreement" was the bees knees are now saying it isn't working.

Those same people who lionised the P&M agreement are now saying that it was not the agreement it should have been.

I am critical of those who I consider are responsible for this whole mess and I am not in favour of apologists who time after time support a failed regime.

We have yet to see which way the wind is going to blow from the PEC and the leadership.

[rockytony67]

dvbuk55 what do you, taking into account all you know, want the PEC to decide tomorrow

[dvbuk55]

Well I don't know anything that others don't know and I certainly don't know how the meetings with RM, Barber, the CWU and the mediator are going - but from a personal point of view, the interim agreement has produced....................... absolutely no change whatsoever.

I would like to see the strikes re-instated but only under the following circumstances:

1. They are absolutely certain that there is enough support to sustain them.

2. There is NO question of calling them off unless there is real commitment by Royal Mail to make cast iron agreement to a minimum working week of 35 hours, all previous changes under EA are open to
change, the overall corporate plan is published for EVERYONE to see, however good or bad it is. We deserve at least that to make a decision whether or not the Unions approach is/has been/will be the right one for US.

3. Before any decision is taken to call off the strikes, the agreement is shown to the membership.

There is no doubt that it is going to be an uphill battle to get the membership to go out again this close to Christmas, especially after the debacle of the "interim" - to get the machinery rolling and call the strikes before Christmas will be a monumental task, not helped by this hiatus.

[Big Daz]

What galls me is that the same people who advised the "interim agreement" was the bees knees are now saying it isn't working.

dvbuk55

It is the way the agreement is worderd that determines if it is any good, not managers ability or desire to follow it.

[dvbuk55]

What galls me is that the same people who advised the "interim agreement" was the bees knees are now saying it isn't working.

dvbuk55

It is the way the agreement is worderd that determines if it is any good, not managers ability or desire to follow it.

Is what I said relevant to what you've just said or am I missing something? It isn't the fact that the "interim agreement" was flawed it is the fact that it was obviously flawed and yet we still had to put up with people saying it was the right way to go - yet 4 days after the strikes were called off those same people were saying it wasn't working. Check the posts after the strikes were called off and see if there was anyone other than the obvious suspects saying "this was it".

[Martin Walsh]

Up my road and wrangled very mature debate asking when I last done a walk . Does that mean I cant have an opinion , because if so when was the last time you negotiated a deal if you havent does it mean that you cant comment on the deal ? Of course it dont.

Now Dvbuk I have always stated that the interim agreement had all the right words the question was whether Royal Mail were going to keep to them. I have seen the Divsional reports from all parts of the UK and it is a mixed bag , some are saying they have reached agreement on 2,3 and some have put duties back. But equally there are a number where no progress has been made and further attacks have taken place. On the national negotations very little progress has been made.

Look Dvbuk, me and you will never agree on things , and really I should not raise to the bait . I have also reviewed what others wrote when the strikes were called off and a lot said that the union had surrenderws and agreed to no strike before chirstmas. Funny thing is now some of those same people are arguing against going out on strike before christmas !

It really is a mixed up world .

[dvbuk55]

Dingo my intention is not to bait you, we merely have a different view on the same proceedings.

I was incensed when the strikes were called off because:

a. The interim agreement was nothing but words
b. They were called off without any regard or recourse to the membership

You actually sound like a politician Dingo with the statement, "I have always said the interim agreement had all the right words" - how banal is that. The question as to whether Royal Mail would keep it's word ...............really, that was naive in the extreme in view of the 2007 agreement, the 500 ballots for strike action and the reports for over a year of executive action and a refusal by RM to engage in any meaningful negotiations either locally or nationally. I will never be convinced that calling off the strikes was the right course of action under the terms that were offered.

[POSTMAN]

I think to be fair if the PEC and those who negotiated the deal,and any others who were involved,sat in a room and said to each other,"well the deal looks good on paper,and if RM stick to the deal,we're onto a winner"

Then,well tbh,i don't know what to think!