Sure we can

[OnAFlyer]

Just one last thing your not PJ are you and you have two accounts as hes not posting any comments on this thread but you are especially when ive posted a reply to him was just curious.......

Oh come on for gods sake, give it up with your conspiracy theories!

Lets get on thing right flyer there a very few people on here ive called a dom FACT. I dont jump into threads shouting FACT. I have never said that i am miserable and want to jack it in FACT. I rather like being a postie just not all the s**t that goes with it.

You don't come across as liking the job much - but just because someone has no problem with their work it doesn't mean they're a plant, a DOM or a manager.

The B/H and cut backs is wide spread across R/M so i cant see how you havnt been effected by any change that has happened over the years .If you have been a postie for 13 years have you not witnessed the decline of the business ????? due to these cuts.

Of course i've witnessed the decline of the business, the service now is garbage compared to what it was 10+ years ago - but I still have no problem finishing on time, and neither do the vast majority of my office. The managers are ok, the duties are ok (despite Pegasus review + a tabletop review) The job is never ever going to be what it was unfortunately

I am passionate about what i believe in like many others and sometimes it may come across a tho i am arrogant. What i say i truly believe in, but it will only be a matter of time before your office is attacked by R/M on the same scale as the majority of ours have,then lets see were your arguing point will be coming from.

..Which is exactly why I and 97%+ of my office went on strike, despite having no reason to in our own office - To support others and to try and stop what has happened in other offices happening throughout RM.

Sometimes the truth is hard to take and the truth always looks and sound harsh obviously your a bit annoyed as to what ive posted as theres a bit of venom in your post . I can suggest the valium sandwich thats on offer with this post works wonders.

No venom, I just can't see why you're ignoring someone or accusing them of being management just because they have a different view to you.

[axeman]

PJ, this is the "stand with my hands in my pockets, talk a lot of crap and collect my wages" bunch. Even the news section has sunk to Socialist Worker meaningless rants. You can't debate with the uninspired

Uninspired ....those of you are just following the 'vision' of crazier and his cronies. It's you that need guidence you see we know the illthought out plans that royal fail percive as 'modernisation' do not work but you go back and sit in the office and offer no resistance to a regime that is set on destroying the true function of royal fail ' boss '

[Exrep]

Flyer me and you could go around in circles all day long and still we wont see eye to eye thankfully.

Anyway my original post was in response to what PJ wrote about TNT ETHOS and motto but for some unknown reason you jumped on the wagon and to make matters worse i didnt even get a response from PJ on my long drawn out post, that was also my reasoning asking whether you were PJ as you seem to be protecting him in some way and now i wont even get a response.

How eveythink is rosy in your office i do not know .The reason i am the way i am is since the second week in august our office has had a horrendous time that i beleive you couldnt even manage to imagine, and for that reason me and you will never agree but please next time let PJ responde to what ive wrote and not you as i think you took the chance away from him.

Notice how i didnt use red was that to show your annoyance in your post.

[peejay14]

Uninspired ....those of you are just following the 'vision' of crazier and his cronies. It's you that need guidence you see we know the illthought out plans that royal fail percive as 'modernisation' do not work but you go back and sit in the office and offer no resistance to a regime that is set on destroying the true function of royal fail ' boss '

Above is a perfectly fair, reasonable and respectable view. But I think that there is a problem with it.

It does not lend itself to 'debate'.

Some so-called debates on here tend to end in jokes and wind ups, and some people attempt to silence me by mocking me.

Like I say, the above quote is very well put, but in a proper DEBATE, those hearing the contributor would still be looking at him for the rest of his contribution, and if there was nothing more to follow, the contributor could only expect a healthy number of enquiries in response, e.g. as to motivation, cases in point, supporting arguments. Without those basic requirements of a debate, then making such short-and-snappy comments will only lead to cursory exchanges of opinion and anyone who doesn't agree will only be 'bullied', using such punchy remarks, into a corner, and the so called 'debate', or rather exchange of opinion (that doesn't really go anywhere), will deteriorate into a one-sided barrage of abuse - not intentionally, and not down to ill-feelings, but crucially down to the limitations of that kind of exchange of views. On this board, it seems that people have to apologise for daring to go over 100 words.

Just see any of the debates / conversations / exchanges of view that I have contributed to, to see the common tactics some people have used to try to talk me down and shut me up. Some, no many, or rather a select few (just again and agian) question my motivations and true identity, instead of assuming my integrity. Well let me question THEIR motivation. Is it that my alternative view does not fit the image that they want to present on here? This board boasts that it represents the views of all, any, and more than the workers of Royal Mail, but I say that this board is coveted by a particular and large sway of the work force, and that they use this board to defend their actions and beliefs, rather than to let this board be a forum where workers of any persuasion and none can enter to have their voice heard, debated (?), respected, questioned fairly, challenged and welcomed.

Yet, without looking at my following view too closely, both because it is unnecessary and because some poor hard working people will say that they fell asleep reading this post before they got past my 3rd sentence, which I say is fair enough and I cannot criticise them for it (but for more relevant issues than this one, losing interest only perpetuates the impression that I am now sharing with anyone who has read this far... ), I think that this board through no fault of its own only mirrors the patterns of behaviour that its makers / members have to live with day-by-day. In general, and reflected by this board, I should say that in-depth debate is reserved for places of special interest, and issues greater than what's happening on the telly and the price of beer don't regularly get that much inspection.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I am some kind of all-seeing wise man from the East, indeed on this thread I have gone as far as to say that it is not necessary to read anything that I write on the issue of the recent strike that I keep coming back to and wish to further analyse (to the revulsion, literal vomiting of some board members, see earlier replies). I must actually be crap at debating, because no-one on here wants to pick the debate up; and who am I to question the majority? Something I am trying to say, though, is that although I may have been talked down by some people on here, and it may appear as though I am losing in the debate, I think that my only loss is down to disadvantage in numbers and an unfair fight.

In conclusion, and as some have even pointed out to me, perhaps this is not the place to be questioning the strike, and perhaps I should take the hint and take my views elsewhere (some have suggested starting a blog, although I'm not sure that their tongue is not firmly in their cheek as they say that). To say that this is a place for debate may not be true in all cases. That again, I think, is no fault of this board, because by sheer numbers again the loudest shout on here is in favour of the strike, and to argue against the strike is very, very hard on here. Minds on here are already made up, unlike mine, yet again that is not a criticism, even though I get criticised for my weakness and indecision (others haven't put it quite that politely).

Perhaps the moral of the tale is that if you are prepared to give it, you should be prepared to take it. These times are fraught however, and that cannot be discounted. Tempers are shorter and moods may swing more readily. Taking all that I can into consideration, I think that the majority will always win and to some extent will exercise certain liberties, say of expression for example, that it will not so easily bestow upon minorities when it is not in its interest to do so.

:mfo - this says it all for me. (He doesn't talk for me, no-one does that for me, but such a smilie subtly pre-selects the favoured type of contribution on here.)

[Stormproof]

Get yourself a blog PJ then we have'nt got to attempt to read your extremely long and boring posts. Perhaps you should change career and make a fortune as a cure for insomnia.

[BELIAL]

And there's me thinking that the mind numbing tedium of a Leighton "our people going forward,group huddle" DVD , could never be beaten

[dvbuk55]

Never mind those other philistines peejay - I really do enjoy not reading your posts - think of the environment though peejay - the amount of electricity you've wasted typing that erm that ..well that could have run a major city for a week - please try to keep it to a small town in future, a village, a hamlet - hey lets just keep it to a shed and save the world - much more satisfying than saving Royal Mail

[peejay14]

I think that with your multitude of pointless criticisms that follow most of my posts, buky-boy, your electricity consumption will be up there too, you hypocrite.

[axeman]

'now don't get me wrong' .......... i think your alright but that won't keep me warm in the middle of the night ....

[peejay14]

When peejay first came on this site, he was all "Oh, I'm just going to work until I dont like it anymore then I'll be off".
Now he's all " we must all work harder and longer for the sake of the company".
What's he going to be next month ?

Nice ' quotes ' there T B.

I think that my thought process has been clear and transparent. I have gone to some length to make it so.

That I have moved from my original position shows, I think, that I have listened to constructive criticisms and been prepared to re-consider my own position. I've already said that I find this board to be an education at times, as there are some contributors here that are far more informed than I am about company matters.

I am no stick-in-the-mud and I am even prepared to be dissuaded away from my main position that is against strike action (note that I am not against industrial action in principal, just strike action). I have an open mind and a capacity for learning, and I hope that my posts communicate that, without coming across as too thought-out.

Serious matters deserve serious thought. I think it frustrates some people on here that to me the question of taking strike action is not as simple as ticking one box or another, and deserves all the consideration for the life-changing decision that it is.

As I say above, you virtually need to toe-the-line in order to be taken seriously on here.

[norbert]

PJ, this is the "stand with my hands in my pockets, talk a lot of crap and collect my wages" bunch. Even the news section has sunk to Socialist Worker meaningless rants. You can't debate with the uninspired

Uninspired ....those of you are just following the 'vision' of crazier and his cronies. It's you that need guidence you see we know the illthought out plans that royal fail percive as 'modernisation' do not work but you go back and sit in the office and offer no resistance to a regime that is set on destroying the true function of royal fail ' boss '

Sorry PJ - too earnest for me - even a former HR manager was scathingly critical of RM's deliberate bombastic brinksmanship policy , they tried in 2003 , 2007 & 9 & it never really worked - Hooper was scathingly critical too - " lacking the expertise to run a mail operation , failure to take people with them " . Mandy - " a deficient gene pool " .

No vision , no imagination , no nothing .

Crozier was shown the door by the FA & told to resign , otherwise it would be messy . Leighton's " new wave " management style was also deemed to be a failure ( Even the Union Bashing Hellmail site was critical of the plasma screens ) . That's why a more conservative chairman was appointed .

They call huddles - muddles at ASDA . That's the problem - RM is not a supermarket .

Higson was brought in as a union busting hatchet man - he didn't come over very well , sounding if he was reading a shopping list out . Tolhurst just sounds like a very over promoted mediocrity - the Peter Principle taken to literal extremes with RM

Another hated senior manager resigned in 2007 , saying RM's business plan was suicidal - by Xmas many of RM's board had left " to persue other careers " . Then in the background in 2009 you had Mandy trying to settle childish petty vendettas , some going back years - playground politics .

That's where the buck stops - that's what has to be looked at . Not exactly happy clappy , corporate "utopia" RM

[BELIAL]

Hawwamti mumtil'ah bi'anqalaysun

[Night Tonic]

Then Norbert, PJ made his point perfectly and more succinctly than the (now boring) you're a manager, Hellmail plant, Fluffy watcher or whole host of pointless cryptic jibes that offer nothing in the form of a reply. Same names, same faces, same drivel, and going nowhere.

[Tman]

please come back Mr New Labour , T - man all is forgiven , even Private Fraser or Lord Haw Haw / Hellmail ? -

Never been away Norbert, but is the same old same old worth the aditional wear on the keyboard to answer?
"Not really", is the answer to that.
Same old faces screeching the same "insults" soon becomes boring, as NT said.

[Thorby Bislam]

When peejay first came on this site, he was all "Oh, I'm just going to work until I dont like it anymore then I'll be off".
Now he's all " we must all work harder and longer for the sake of the company".
What's he going to be next month ?

Nice ' quotes ' there T B.

Not 'quotes' P J. Nor intended to be. Paraphrases for the sake of brevity.

(paraphrase: n. 1. A restatement of a text or passage in another form or other words, often to clarify meaning.)