Report From National briefing held on Friday 13th November

[johnnyp]

A full time job,with a 35 hour week,£25,000 a year basic with a 4 hour delivery max.
Does that seem to much?

[POSTMAN]

Guys,i'm not up for what i've posted,and i'm sure not happy about it.And i deffo don't want it.
The 2 that sticks out is the 3o'clock which will be 4 for rurals and the 4hr walks.
I used to do 2 of those,the 3o'clock thing and the 4 hr walks,but that was on a 4 day week,and i always thought it would be too much for 5 day week duties.
But for full timers what is left?

Indoor work will be going down with wsm's and flat sorting machines,there is a lot of hrs in the day that needs to be filled for a FULL TIME duty.
Any alternatives?

Take an hr off each day because of the SWW,is that enough?

[johnnyp]

What about the CWU blueprint for deliverys?
That looked ok.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... nt#p150993" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BELIAL]

Bob crozier Gibson can stick his" longer walking spans "where the sun don't shine ,"Period".
Bob Gibson should be frog marched to the nearest DO and forced to complete a walk for a few weeks,"period".
Bob Gibson ,when was the last time you did a walk?
Bob Gibson is a name that will stick in my mind when the next ballot papers are issued

[robd]

What's more important though your welfare or your bank balance?
Like i said earlier,we have guys at our place who are going to be on the scrap heap,because as walk men they
are deemed no longer fit for purpose.
Bob Gibson said for health and safety the delivery span should be no longer than 3hours 30 mins,so what's changed
his mind?
I know they say you've got a trolley,but the reality is you still end up working from your bag,and will be walking in
all weathers for 4 hours!
welcome to the world of royal mail,we are the law,if you don't like it tough.

[drb]

What's more important though your welfare or your bank balance?
Like i said earlier,we have guys at our place who are going to be on the scrap heap,because as walk men they
are deemed no longer fit for purpose.
Bob Gibson said for health and safety the delivery span should be no longer than 3hours 30 mins,so what's changed
his mind?
I know they say you've got a trolley,but the reality is you still end up working from your bag,and will be walking in
all weathers for 4 hours!
If you work anywhere by law you are entitled to a break after 3hours 30 mins.
(example 9-5.....start at 9 work 3hours 30 then combine your breaks to form a dinner hour because it's illegal to
take your break at the end of your shift then work 3hours 30 again takes you to 5)
welcome to the world of royal mail,we are the law,if you don't like it tough.

Take your meal break then.....when you meant to...not at at the end.....

[POSTMAN]

i'll nick what dingo has posted in another thread.

I do not think either Royal Mail or the CWU have really explained the scale of change that is being disucssed in the national talks.

Take walk sequecing the fact is that not only will that decrease IPS and Prep but it will deliver 40% of the work to a delivery office considerably later then now and in some cases where the office is located a considerable distance from where walk seqencing machine is it could be as late as 10 in the morning. The bussiness case for walk seqeuncing does not allow for the first 60% of work to be sorted first.

So the dilema for the union is this if work is going to be coming in later and you have protenially lost up to 20% of your workload maybe more in some cases then how do you protect full time jobs.

On an 8 hour day it will be come more differcult even given the fact that Royal Mail now plot deliveries on 3.5 hours first to last point of delivery and then biuld replensihment time on top so in reality walks are longer then 3.5 hours.

The shorter working week is vital for the future but is it something people want to fight for ? Well we have had two 90 mins reductions since 1988 and countless policies on obtaining a 35 hour working week.

Yes the CWU have looked at suggustions on the SWW do we collaspe meal reliefs to increase hourly rates. The Union did this under the profesional drivers agreement. There are pro and cons on this point, the pros are that a lot of members simply work their break in deliveries offices now so we would be increasing the hourly rate , the downside is that it would encourage a lot of members not to take breaks at all.

Now in terms of longer spans well we use to under 2 deliveries have a 2.5 hour first delivery and a 2 hour second delivery per day. I do serious believe that there will no agreed span but the shorter the span the less of a full time job you will have.

[BELIAL]

One question to start with,
Where is this potential 20% reduction in workload coming from???
In our trial area with walk sequencing up and running the prep time savings are less than 6% , and as a direct result of sequencing ,inward sorting times are up 15 - 20% +.
What new innovation is going to make up this 18% increase and the 20% reduction? It must be a well kept business secret that can turn around a 38% reduction in workload, probably covered by commercial confidentiality

[wranglered]

"Bob said that members would have to look forward to longer walking spans with work loads and capability being looked at to increase performance."
"Bob said that deliveries would have to look forward to 1500hrs urban last letter and 1600hrs rural last letter and that this would be due to the increase in the use of CWSMs and ILSMs which will be coming on line in the near future."



Bob's a cheery b*st*rd.

Bob's laughing his c*ck off because Bob won't be doing it - easy to negotiate work for someone else when you are not affected - but hey it'll be the best deal they can get

Jesus! that Bob Gibson has been a contrary 2 faced muppet for as long as i can remember and he relies on the apathy of the vast majority who dont even vote in the PEC ballots.You would think after the 2007 agreement all these plastic gangsters would have been swept aside by now, but no we went in to this dispute with the same old faces and we are getting the same old big business agenda.The union is like trying to read a franz kafka novel while falling down a flight of stairs!

Marvellous post...as one of our more circumspect posters said, Bob will be happy 'cos he ain't going to do the work.....

As a point, when was Bob Gibson last a blue shirt?

[Martin Walsh]

Belial I am not sure if you are refering to the first phase of walk sequencing machines deployed under the safeguarding our future agreement which did mean that the cluster office didt have walk sequenced mail from 4 o clock in the morning so no distant mails etc were included so minimal savings could be made.

However in the Gatwick and the Bristol trial all machine mail is walk sequenced that includes the work which clears a mail centre at 4 .40 and normally arrives in delivery offices for IPS sorting. Hence why Royal Mail are calculating 20% loss of work to a delivery office.

However as this work will need at times 4 different passes on the walk sequecing machines this work can dependent on where your office is located for example on the Gatwick trial Eastbourne delivery office will not get their second batch of walk sequenced mail to almost 10 o clock which is appoxmately 40% of their delivery offices work. They have been told that they cannot set in the first 60% of work as it will decrease the ammount of savings Royal Mail can make and therefore have to set in the work when all 100% of work is available. Hence the problem we face will how we can protect full time jobs in an automated enviorment in some offices.

[Ernie Shoe]

Bob Gibson said for health and safety the delivery span should be no longer than 3hours 30 mins,so what's changed
his mind?


We have "3 and a half hour walks" in our office that are knackering and are 4 hour walks 3 days of the week.

4 hour walks could end up 5 hour walks on heavy days.

The CWU want to protect full time jobs to keep as many subscriptions going as possible.

Many people must want redundancy rather than 5 hour slogs!

But the CWU don't want to loose any subs do they.

I'm becoming more and more cynical of this bunch.
As for Bob Gibson

[oggie]

[quote="Ernie Shoe"]Bob Gibson said for health and safety the delivery span should be no longer than 3hours 30 mins,so what's changed
his mind?

protecting full time jobs has changed his mind, before there was the prep to do, now these machine's will be doing a lot of that, so unless anyone can come up with infillin the lost time then it is no good blaming bob, maybe going out for say 2 hrs and then coming back for meal relief and then going out for the last 2hrs which will mean everyone has to take a m/r.
the key to this is a shorter working week.

[Ernie Shoe]

Bob Gibson said for health and safety the delivery span should be no longer than 3hours 30 mins,so what's changed
his mind?

protecting full time jobs has changed his mind, before there was the prep to do, now these machine's will be doing a lot of that, so unless anyone can come up with infillin the lost time then it is no good blaming bob, maybe going out for say 2 hrs and then coming back for meal relief and then going out for the last 2hrs which will mean everyone has to take a m/r.
the key to this is a shorter working week.

When weathers Crap Yeah Ok cycle 3 miles back to the office after delivering for 2 hours, have 40 minute meal break, then cycle back 3 miles for another 2 hours delivery. Corker!
Or I could always have 40 minutes under a bus shelter.

4 hours ++++ delivering will finish a lot of people off. The overs 50's (generalising I know) will be hard hit. I know plenty of fellas in my office who are limping wrecks now. Try telling them to deliver for another 1 hour. Because RM 30 minutes extra isn't acheivable for this group.

Correct me if I'm wrong but what is Mr Gibson proposing for this large group of his "customers" (CWU fee payers)?

Wranglered makes a very good point - are the CWU going to insist the MTSF stays in place? Are they arsed? I think not! They will lose subscription money if people get made redundant!

If it means delivering for upto 5 hours a day then I don't want the job; not that I can't do it. I simply don't want to get into my 50's and be a crock of s**t for this job. Not worth it!

When I started this job I signed a contract;
Monday - Friday 5am - 1.20pm
Saturdays 5am - 11.20
Was told deliveries are UPTO 3 1/2 hours on Interview.

Didn't like the idea of 5 out of 6 saturdays working - hadn't done that since the 80's in Woolie but thought at least I'd be home before 12 - can still get to the pub before football, spend time with my wife blah, blah, blah.

In 4 years the job has changed year on year.

Now the proposals seem to be rapidly heading towards;
Monday - Friday 8am - 4pm
Saturdays 8am - 4pm
Deliveries upto 5 hours.

The job i signed up for will be gone by the end of 2010.

Therefore REDUNDANCY PLEASE!

[fishtank]

"the key to this is a shorter working week."

It's quite funny that in all those days standing on the picket line we spoke about many reasons for the I/A but no-one ever mentioned this.
The dispute started because of imposed changes,unrealistic workloads and bullying managers.
These issues have been sidelined and replaced by
Money,Shorter working week -The carrot
protecting full time jobs.-the stick

If money was not an issue 6 months ago why is it now?
If the shorter working week means surrendering paid breaks and doing the same amount of work but having less time to do it,How is that a gain?
If protecting full time jobs is so important to the union then

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS!

Don't try to guilt trip me into accepting a deal which will benefit some and crucify the majority

[dvbuk55]

Dingo posts:

"They have been told that they cannot set in the first 60% of work as it will decrease the ammount of savings Royal Mail can make and therefore have to set in the work when all 100% of work is available. Hence the problem we face will how we can protect full time jobs in an automated enviorment in some offices."

Is this not a point to be argued and to be negotiated. It strikes me that the 2007 agreement included union input and the fact that Royal Mail are not making as much in savings is not really an issue for the CWU - so we should be able set in any work that is available.

Lets stop being Royal Mails messenger boy and get these things negotiated to OUR advantage.