RM FIRST REVIEW TOMORROW

[rmdriver]

Will we find out anything from the union tomorrow if they think Royal Mail are "abiding" by the talks? I really hope the union can see through this scam and call their bluff with more strikes.

[fishtank]

CWU HQ are well aware of the frontline situation.
The question is do THEY want more strikes and can they resist the mounting pressure from the members if they don't.
If the negotiations are going well but the "interim agreement" is not being followed in the D.Os and MCs,Which is more important?
The PEC will have to take into account member support and public/political reaction before making a reccomendation.
And the big question is What do you want from fresh strikes?

This is a difficult situation for all concerned.

[wardroom]

My reaction to the first week review is what I see happening in my workplace has made no difference and all I suspect is the area managers are ignoring the agreement.
If the office reps want to see any changes as per interim agreement they will have to report there findings to the area reps and suggest we return to i/a asap.
Whilst this is a shame what more did you expect r/m to do, next move after setting dates is get that appointment with acas then we will see.

[Big Daz]

Fishtank

That is a spot on analysis

I would imagine late afternoon Monday or early morning Tuesday a LTB will be sent out.

PEC meet wednesday i belive is the info posted by dingo, so if any more IA is called expect it to be 25th November onwards for the first day of strikes.

[peejay14]

I'm glad that we have come through the latest strike, and that we all have the chance to put things right. I say let's get to work, and try something different to put us back on track. Anything, except another strike. We can make our voice heard in other ways that still allow us to prove our worth on our country's streets. Why take it out on our greatest source of support - the general public. I challenge the CWU to adopt a strategy that will both expose whatever is going on at Royal Mail, while not endangering our jobs and our reputations. Before the latest strike I had no idea that so much was going on behind the scenes between the union and the company, and honestly when things capitulated I was not prepared for what happened. Now the union has got my full attention, and I too am eagerly waiting to hear how the forthcoming talks will go. And based on what I hear, I will offer my support to whichever side I agree with, if I agree with either. Ideally, I will be in the position not to have to choose between them, because hopefully they will agree to work together and so avoid more turmoil. I did not agree with the strike, and will be hard pushed to agree to join another, but the industrial action has woken up this sleeping postie.

[rhino49]

One of the biggest problems in all this is that Royal Mail's managers have been unleashed by the fact that there is not even a consensus of opinion between their top people. Managers at all levels are out of, or more likely lacking control, and in the same way as RM has localised and weakened our negotiating and decision making processes it now finds that it cannot directly govern it's managers behaviour. The first side of this confrontation to get itself together nationally will win this dispute outright - I certainly hope it is us.

[DirtyHarry]

I'm glad that we have come through the latest strike, and that we all have the chance to put things right. I say let's get to work, and try something different to put us back on track. Anything, except another strike. We can make our voice heard in other ways that still allow us to prove our worth on our country's streets. Why take it out on our greatest source of support - the general public. I challenge the CWU to adopt a strategy that will both expose whatever is going on at Royal Mail, while not endangering our jobs and our reputations. Before the latest strike I had no idea that so much was going on behind the scenes between the union and the company, and honestly when things capitulated I was not prepared for what happened. Now the union has got my full attention, and I too am eagerly waiting to hear how the forthcoming talks will go. And based on what I hear, I will offer my support to whichever side I agree with, if I agree with either. Ideally, I will be in the position not to have to choose between them, because hopefully they will agree to work together and so avoid more turmoil. I did not agree with the strike, and will be hard pushed to agree to join another, but the industrial action has woken up this sleeping postie.

I hope the strikes come back on as soon as. Royal Mail's monkey's in suits, senior executives in other words, and those who slavishly serve them, managers they call themselves, deserve to be shown up for the incompetent shower of bullies they are, and were shown up to be during the period we were on strike.
I cannot think of any other way this can be done, can you?

[rockytony67]

I'm glad that we have come through the latest strike, and that we all have the chance to put things right. I say let's get to work, and try something different to put us back on track. Anything, except another strike. We can make our voice heard in other ways that still allow us to prove our worth on our country's streets. Why take it out on our greatest source of support - the general public. I challenge the CWU to adopt a strategy that will both expose whatever is going on at Royal Mail, while not endangering our jobs and our reputations. Before the latest strike I had no idea that so much was going on behind the scenes between the union and the company, and honestly when things capitulated I was not prepared for what happened. Now the union has got my full attention, and I too am eagerly waiting to hear how the forthcoming talks will go. And based on what I hear, I will offer my support to whichever side I agree with, if I agree with either. Ideally, I will be in the position not to have to choose between them, because hopefully they will agree to work together and so avoid more turmoil. I did not agree with the strike, and will be hard pushed to agree to join another, but the industrial action has woken up this sleeping postie.

So come on peejay14, what do you think the union should do if RM are not honoring agreements they signed up to.

" I challenge the CWU to adopt a strategy that will both expose whatever is going on at Royal Mail, while not endangering our jobs and our reputations"

How would be nice

[spilie]

if we are continualy fed with answers like "interim agreements", genuine negotiations" and "willingness to work together" then as i have said before the union will have committed suicide rather than been murdered by RM, this company have not seen the light and decided to accept union approval they are stalling aand as soon as we lose the xmas trump card, they will force through all the changes they want, so we should be calling strikes back on as soon as possible and demanding a voice not asking for one

[peejay14]

I aint in charge, and wouldn't last a day if I was. I don't know much about management, business studies, national mail delivery, politics etc. So look away now if you actually do.

I have a healthy respect for anyone who strikes against their employer, because it is a momentous decision and will go down in history. I can see that striking can be necessary to resolve disputes between work force and company, but overall I think the system is flawed. I don't really have anything against either side in the dispute, as both believe that they have their roles to perform in order to make the business succeed. I'm just a humble worker who is keeping his head down and hoping that peace will break out. I'm listening to the debate, but I don't really want to add my light weight to it and exacerbate it any more than it has been already, if I can avoid it. I hope that the fight will not consume and distract us from what is most important, improving the business for our customers - which funnily enough is a big disagreement between the two sides.

Sure I've made lengthy posts, but I hope that I have not offended anyone outright, because I really cannot stand what is happening. It's not that I am on anyone's side, which will probably win me no fans at all, not that I'm looking for any (though a little come-and-go would be nice). Most of you say that there is no third way, there is only strike or break strike. What about just working for yourself ? Selfish maybe, but not unjustifiable. I want to escape from all this trouble and just get back to a regular day at the office without this hanging over us. So why don't I get another job? Because I enjoy what I do, which to me is a reason not to strike, but not THE reason why I did not strike.

As for alternatives to the strike, well, isn't the aim of the strike to send over a message that we think that things are going from bad to worse and something should be done about it; a message to our bosses, a message to our customers, and a message to each other? Striking is just laying too much on the line, putting more at stake than there is to begin with. My first suggestion would be for the CWU to use the media. Not in a malicious way, but in an informative way, to put their case for the change they feel needs to take place, and win the paying public over by persuasion and not drastic action. Eventually public pressure could force the company into implementing some changes or at least meeting the work force half way (which personally I think they should anyway!). I think that the CWU should be the voice of the work force and should be a lot, lot busier speaking up for us, and not just showing-up when things spin out of control. I'm not a member of the union. Until now I've never considered it, but now that the recent disaster has caught everyone's attention, the union (or the company in fairness) could win my support depending on who really stands up and leads us out of this.

The paying customer is more important than both the manager and the worker. We should never risk losing the paying customer, it would be madness no matter who blamed who, because we can argue until we are blue in the face about customer service, but with no customer to serve...

If the public genuinely need us, then it would be in their interest to listen to what we have to say. And I think that the public could do without us striking before we decide to explain to them why we are doing it, because doing it in that order shows that we do not care what the customer thinks any way.

I say let's consult the public, and not use them, especially when they are suffering enough in this time of recession as it is. Do the public really have any more patience with the system to give at the moment? I doubt it. We may suffer an unwelcome backlash.

I think the public got the message this first time round anyway, and are obviously glad that we went back to work. So let's put our message out there and let the public decide, because they will, and from top to bottom the company needs to listen to them. Never, ever, take the customer for granted, it goes without saying. After all, you guys want to remain in the public's hands, don't you? Well let's use them properly while they are still with us, let's win them over and not hold them to ransom (especially the way things are economically), remembering that we expect them to continue giving us their money both directly and through taxes.

Are we sure there is an appetite amongst the public to support a series of strikes? Wouldn't the public prefer if we made it a war of words, instead of dangerous actions? If the CWU has such a strong case any way, it would stand to win the argument in the public arena, wouldn't it? Why does a confident and well-spoken union need to resort to desperate measures anyway? If we trust the public, we can win their support through Communication, Without Upsetting them.

[axeman]

the way to get public attention is to strike again and let it be known that royal fail is not honouring the interim aggrement once the public know that royal fails only intention is to try to break the union (backed by liebour) they will see how much of a spiv crazier is

[opgpat]

Sure I've made lengthy posts,

mmmm indeed.

Your missing the general point about IA. If any company totally and unequivically refuses to consult, listen to or respect the concerns of it's workers and enforces unrealistic cuts the ONLY option left for those workers is a legal withdrawl of their labour. That is inshrined in law and if that is the ONLY option for the staff because the company is turning it's back on them then it has to happen and the effect on customers is what the military call 'colateral damage' - unwanted but unavoidable.


If workers were not prepared to take legal strike action then company management teams across the UK would have field day in a race to the bottom for workers terms and conditions. Minimum wage for all, is that what you want? Let them do what they want lets just keep the customers happy? You are concerned about job security? Then support the union not the company who want to cut cut cut till we bleed.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Most of you say that there is no third way, there is only strike or break strike. What about just working for yourself ? Selfish maybe, but not unjustifiable.

Working for yourself - see my posts on franchise deliveries its coming long term I think. Or if you mean during a strike, then you are breaking a strike. The decision to strike or not is complicated and should not be done lightly, however the act of striking is an either or decision, you either strike when called or break the strike. Its like a light bulb its either on or not, even if it has blown (a 3rd way) its still no on.

The paying customer is more important than both the manager and the worker.

Spoken like Adam - Sorry I have never ever agreed with that - All 3 are just as important to the company as each other.

If management cant manager effectively - The company crumbles into anarchy.

If Workers concerns are not addressed effectively or a decent wage commensurate with the task then IA will affect the business as will high turn over of staff and employees loyalty - all have an effect on the bottom line.

Customers are important as without customers there is no business but the only difference is the speed of the decline not the final outcome.

All 3 are as important as each other.

[chewi]

pjay said "My first suggestion would be for the CWU to use the media. Not in a malicious way, but in an informative way, to put their case for the change they feel needs to take place, and win the paying public over by persuasion and not drastic action"

Yes! A lovely idea! Unfortunately the media is not impartial or fair, and so does not give fair and accurate coverage to any issue. There is no such thing as a fair or impartial press. It is pretty much owned by those who have "succeeded" under the rules in existance now. WHO WRITES THOSE RULES? Those who have "succeeded" and are in charge. Simple as!!

An example:- who owns The Sun,the Times, Sky News and Fox? Who destroyed the print unions? Who has a fundamental hatred of worker representation? Answer Rupert Murdoch.

[DirtyHarry]

I aint in charge, and wouldn't last a day if I was. I don't know much about management, business studies, national mail delivery, politics etc. So look away now if you actually do.

I have a healthy respect for anyone who strikes against their employer, because it is a momentous decision and will go down in history. I can see that striking can be necessary to resolve disputes between work force and company, but overall I think the system is flawed. I don't really have anything against either side in the dispute, as both believe that they have their roles to perform in order to make the business succeed. I'm just a humble worker who is keeping his head down and hoping that peace will break out. I'm listening to the debate, but I don't really want to add my light weight to it and exacerbate it any more than it has been already, if I can avoid it. I hope that the fight will not consume and distract us from what is most important, improving the business for our customers - which funnily enough is a big disagreement between the two sides.

Sure I've made lengthy posts, but I hope that I have not offended anyone outright, because I really cannot stand what is happening. It's not that I am on anyone's side, which will probably win me no fans at all, not that I'm looking for any (though a little come-and-go would be nice). Most of you say that there is no third way, there is only strike or break strike. What about just working for yourself ? Selfish maybe, but not unjustifiable. I want to escape from all this trouble and just get back to a regular day at the office without this hanging over us. So why don't I get another job? Because I enjoy what I do, which to me is a reason not to strike, but not THE reason why I did not strike.

As for alternatives to the strike, well, isn't the aim of the strike to send over a message that we think that things are going from bad to worse and something should be done about it; a message to our bosses, a message to our customers, and a message to each other? Striking is just laying too much on the line, putting more at stake than there is to begin with. My first suggestion would be for the CWU to use the media. Not in a malicious way, but in an informative way, to put their case for the change they feel needs to take place, and win the paying public over by persuasion and not drastic action. Eventually public pressure could force the company into implementing some changes or at least meeting the work force half way (which personally I think they should anyway!). I think that the CWU should be the voice of the work force and should be a lot, lot busier speaking up for us, and not just showing-up when things spin out of control. I'm not a member of the union. Until now I've never considered it, but now that the recent disaster has caught everyone's attention, the union (or the company in fairness) could win my support depending on who really stands up and leads us out of this.

The paying customer is more important than both the manager and the worker. We should never risk losing the paying customer, it would be madness no matter who blamed who, because we can argue until we are blue in the face about customer service, but with no customer to serve...

If the public genuinely need us, then it would be in their interest to listen to what we have to say. And I think that the public could do without us striking before we decide to explain to them why we are doing it, because doing it in that order shows that we do not care what the customer thinks any way.

I say let's consult the public, and not use them, especially when they are suffering enough in this time of recession as it is. Do the public really have any more patience with the system to give at the moment? I doubt it. We may suffer an unwelcome backlash.

I think the public got the message this first time round anyway, and are obviously glad that we went back to work. So let's put our message out there and let the public decide, because they will, and from top to bottom the company needs to listen to them. Never, ever, take the customer for granted, it goes without saying. After all, you guys want to remain in the public's hands, don't you? Well let's use them properly while they are still with us, let's win them over and not hold them to ransom (especially the way things are economically), remembering that we expect them to continue giving us their money both directly and through taxes.

Are we sure there is an appetite amongst the public to support a series of strikes? Wouldn't the public prefer if we made it a war of words, instead of dangerous actions? If the CWU has such a strong case any way, it would stand to win the argument in the public arena, wouldn't it? Why does a confident and well-spoken union need to resort to desperate measures anyway? If we trust the public, we can win their support through Communication, Without Upsetting them.

Yeah, as I was saying, I'm looking forward to being back on the picket line, preferably before Santa starts out on his deliveries.