Questions I’d like answered on Royal Mail

[damcka]

I recently chatted to a number of staff in my local area, and questioned them about their strike action (which is over revision), to which 4 out of 5 said they felt the revison was "the right thing to do", "it had made their delivery easier", but "the CWU didn't agree, so that why we're out". that makes sense.......what the hell sort of business is this?

Does damcka still stand by this quote!
Your "Phd" obviously wasn't in maths as your 80 percent of happy workers doesn't really tally with the 75 percent that voted to strike.
stop union bashing as Ive read your posts. We are a democracy i'm a worker and the union work for me !
not the other way round.

I stand by what i said...it's still true. There are a lot of post men/women out there who don't want to strike purely for financial reasons, but fear backlash if they were to go to work. I also stand by the fact that there are many post men/ women who believe that revision was a good thing as it spread the workload equally among staff.

This might not be the case in other offices, but i can only comment on the offices/ MC's I have be involved with. Thats why i remained philosphical when apportioning blame/ responsibilty.

As for academic qualifications/ expertise.... you were "obviously" wrong in your assumption of what I specialised in. The reason for the disjointed sentences in my last post, was purely down to lack of time/ sleep etc. I didnt realise i was subject to an examination..If its too much to act like an adult here then...........

Working Practices (From my experience, your experience may differ......)

There have been a lot of changes to the business and working practices, and in many ways RM has been slow to catch up with modern ways of working. I dont blame any staff member who finds it difficult to change what has been culturally acceptable to them and the business since time in memorial, but change is what must happen...

eg. Drivers in MC's: Should come in and carry out work to help the operation when not driving or loading/ unloading their vehicle. I can honestly say I have never seen this happen in any MC.

eg 2. Enquiry Office staff should carry out other duties in DO when the enquiry office is not a) Open or, b) busy. Again, never seen this happen.

I could go on....

In a supermarket if a shelf stacker was asked to work in the warehouse or checkout there would be no issue.
On a building site, If a labourer was asked to work with the Roofer, and then next day the plumber. Again, no issue....
In a production line environment, If a member of staff was asked to move to the opposite end of the line. No Issue...
In a distribution environment, if a driver was asked to change his/ her route to help out. No problem!
In an admin environment staff can be moved to a differnet department without any issue.
In retail, if asked to tidy the shop/ store etc. No issue

I cant think of any example (in my time) of this type of behaviour in Royal Mail.

Pay (For the person who mentioned it.)

IMO post men/ women are paid VERY well for the tasks they carry out. The forum member has mentioned pay being "nowhere near the national average wage". The average house in the UK cost 160K, and this is after the US housing crash causing the global recession we currently find ourselves in, who here owns a house worth £160k+, especially the further North one lives.......

RM staff are paid on average 15-20% more than competitors in a similar industries. This is a statistic of whih i'm sure someone will take exception to, but the recruitment websites speak for themselves....

The work carried out by RM staff, is essentially, unskilled. Why should this sort of work be financially rewarded in the same as eg. an accountant, architect, Dr, Nurse, tradesman?
Should UK be made a communist country? should we all be paide the same and not strive for better lives for oursleves and families? Should achievement not be rewarded?

Profits/ Turnover/ Volumes & Competition etc

I believe that an operating profit of 58 million, from a business with such a huge turnover and workforce, isn't the kind of financial golden goose that some think. Competition, the internet and declining traffic in 2009 will wipe out this profit next year, hence the need to adapt, change and move the business forward, not sideways.

and finally....

All of this is my opinion, based on my experiences in mail centres, RDCs, Delivery units. I have not set out to attack anyone in this thread, nor do i intend to. It is also not my intention to be abrasive and cause argument. As i have said, its about my experience, shared with you, from a formerly "outside" perspective.
I fully hope that the CWU and RM reach an agreement that benefits both the business and the staff.

Apologies if my spelling, grammar or command of the english language has offended anyone who read.....

[borders]

"eg. Drivers in MC's: Should come in and carry out work to help the operation when not driving or loading/ unloading their vehicle. I can honestly say I have never seen this happen in any MC."...... i am a driver working out of a MC and my shift involves working in the warehouse , portering , segging bags , loading the scanner etc along with some driving. there is many of us and our jobs have been like this for years ????

[BELIAL]

Who cares ,we are f****d ,more work for less money ,very reasonable ,enjoy your big fat bonus.Got to go and fill in my housing benefit and income support forms

[tcblue]

Sounds like damcka would have us all on £5.80 an hour and one hour contracts phone us up when he needs us, this country is going backwards victorian cotton mill workers had more rights

[bitchface]

I stand by what i said...it's still true. There are a lot of post men/women out there who don't want to strike purely for financial reasons, but fear backlash if they were to go to work. I also stand by the fact that there are many post men/ women who believe that revision was a good thing as it spread the workload equally among staff......

you mean spread evenly among lessstaff.we all knew in our office before the guy arrived that we were going to lose a delivery.no matter what the computer said.and there was only 11 in the first place.lucky then that in this small unit weve managed to sack 3 long term posties for trival things.

As for academic qualifications/ expertise.... you were "obviously" wrong in your assumption of what I specialised in. The reason for the disjointed sentences in my last post, was purely down to lack of time/ sleep etc. I didnt realise i was subject to an examination..If its too much to act like an adult here then................

agree when we have no points to make we have no option but to return to poor grammer.to make us feel superior

eg. Drivers in MC's: Should come in and carry out work to help the operation when not driving or loading/ unloading their vehicle. I can honestly say I have never seen this happen in any MC......

yes they should

eg 2. Enquiry Office staff should carry out other duties in DO when the enquiry office is not a) Open or, b) busy. Again, never seen this happen......

happens in our office

IMO post men/ women are paid VERY well for the tasks they carry out. The forum member has mentioned pay being "nowhere near the national average wage". The average house in the UK cost 160K, and this is after the US housing crash causing the global recession we currently find ourselves in, who here owns a house worth £160k+, especially the further North one lives............

we arnt very well paid,we are paid, imo well enough.but nobody and i mean nobody,on my wages can afford to buy a house no matter how small down here in somerset"by a long shot.there is always some plank that says, look how much under the national average we get.this will always happen because if we all actually got the the average,it wouldnt be the average any more.some just cant grasp that fact.

RM staff are paid on average 15-20% more than competitors in a similar industries. This is a statistic of whih i'm sure someone will take exception to, but the recruitment websites speak for themselves.........

there is no similer industry in this country none off the other do foot/cycle or van deliveries to every house..
the big guy who got 5million last year,is quoting other european firms.if we got a better exchange rate we could say we are 20% under paid.its all bollox.
it isnt even comparing truely like for like jobs.yet lets compare :cfo his salery to any other public servent in the western world.is he saying he is payed 600%to much....no didnt think so

The work carried out by RM staff, is essentially, unskilled. Why should this sort of work be financially rewarded in the same as eg. an accountant, architect, Dr, Nurse, tradesman?
Should UK be made a communist country? should we all be paide the same and not strive for better lives for oursleves and families? Should achievement not be rewarded?

Profits/ Turnover/ Volumes & Competition etc

I believe that an operating profit of 58 million, from a business with such a huge turnover and workforce, isn't the kind of financial golden goose that some think. Competition, the internet and declining traffic in 2009 will wipe out this profit next year, hence the need to adapt, change and move the business forward, not sideways.

and finally....

All of this is my opinion, based on my experiences in mail centres, RDCs, Delivery units. I have not set out to attack anyone in this thread, nor do i intend to. It is also not my intention to be abrasive and cause argument. As i have said, its about my experience, shared with you, from a formerly "outside" perspective.
I fully hope that the CWU and RM reach an agreement that benefits both the business and the staff.

Apologies if my spelling, grammar or command of the english language has offended anyone who read.....

AGAIN PROFIT VERSES TURNOVER AGRUMENT,58 million is profit,that profit would be a great deal higher before the million pound contratcs of the top executives and the 5-6 million of the top guy.the 10 million bonus pot for managers ,the court fees ,lawyers fees and compansation payouts for numourous cases against royal mail in tribuneral and the high court,nearly all of which they lose and the extra multi millions pumped into the pension blackhole.
if you are going to use that argument please think first.its another retarded agrument meant for those with very little brains

[Tman]

In a supermarket if a shelf stacker was asked to work in the warehouse or checkout there would be no issue.
On a building site, If a labourer was asked to work with the Roofer, and then next day the plumber. Again, no issue....
In a production line environment, If a member of staff was asked to move to the opposite end of the line. No Issue...
In a distribution environment, if a driver was asked to change his/ her route to help out. No problem!
In an admin environment staff can be moved to a differnet department without any issue.
In retail, if asked to tidy the shop/ store etc. No issue

Conversely, in RM, a very good MC machine operator sorts small packets on Nights while an MTT stands idle because the usual operator has gone sick....
NPs don't get the shift vacuum clean because the regular TPM operator is on leave, and the other TPM operators have "done" thier machines and won't do someone else's, so the machine runs badly...

Yep, the artificial world of RM, where 318s over-ride common sense.

[borders]

In a supermarket if a shelf stacker was asked to work in the warehouse or checkout there would be no issue.
On a building site, If a labourer was asked to work with the Roofer, and then next day the plumber. Again, no issue....
In a production line environment, If a member of staff was asked to move to the opposite end of the line. No Issue...
In a distribution environment, if a driver was asked to change his/ her route to help out. No problem!
In an admin environment staff can be moved to a differnet department without any issue.
In retail, if asked to tidy the shop/ store etc. No issue

Conversely, in RM, a very good MC machine operator sorts small packets on Nights while an MTT stands idle because the usual operator has gone sick....
NPs don't get the shift vacuum clean because the regular TPM operator is on leave, and the other TPM operators have "done" thier machines and won't do someone else's, so the machine runs badly...

Yep, the artificial world of RM, where 318s over-ride common sense.

you neglect to mention that on the bottom of everyones 318s [ at least in our office ] there is the words -- or as otherwise directed by your Line Manager. this is what happens in our office, most people can and have been directed to do other work , that is not included on your 318.

[bitchface]

sorry about my last post..postie came to door on his day off wanting a cup of tea and a bitch about letting the worm of the hook AGAIN

[visigoth]

... IMO post men/ women are paid VERY well for the tasks they carry out. The forum member has mentioned pay being "nowhere near the national average wage". The average house in the UK cost 160K, and this is after the US housing crash causing the global recession we currently find ourselves in, who here owns a house worth £160k+, especially the further North one lives.......

RM staff are paid on average 15-20% more than competitors in a similar industries. This is a statistic of whih i'm sure someone will take exception to, but the recruitment websites speak for themselves....

The work carried out by RM staff, is essentially, unskilled. Why should this sort of work be financially rewarded in the same as eg. an accountant, architect, Dr, Nurse, tradesman?
Should UK be made a communist country? should we all be paide the same and not strive for better lives for oursleves and families? Should achievement not be rewarded? ...

You neglected to acknowledge that the forum member who mentioned pay being nowhere near the national average was, in fact, CORRECT. The last time I saw a figure it was £24K. I'll grant you that the RM hourly rate is comparatively good given the nature of the work, but pointing out that others are on less is merely a sad indictment of this country as one that's prepared to suffer a significant %age of workers on less than living wage. I got turned off the Beeb's HYS by numerous posters pointing out how little some get paid as if it was something we should almost be proud of when, in fact, quite the reverse is true (we should be ashamed of it, in case I need to spell that out).

Anyone who works should be paid a living wage, end of. If that sounds like communism to you, then so be it. :)

I believe that an operating profit of 58 million, from a business with such a huge turnover and workforce, isn't the kind of financial golden goose that some think. Competition, the internet and declining traffic in 2009 will wipe out this profit next year, hence the need to adapt, change and move the business forward, not sideways.

Granted £58M is peanuts in some respects. Forex, if you carved it up as a pay rise for all, it wouldn't amount to much. OTOH, I've seen other figures like £300M+ bandied about in various (other) places. Ever heard of creative accounting?

[visigoth]

Anyway.

I'm not a Luddite. Or at least, I don't think I am. I mean, I'm typing on that internet with this computer thingy.

Over the last year, I've changed some of my ways. Forex, I don't pay my power bills by cheque by post anymore -- I do it online. Partly because ... money, partly because "they" said "we must all be 'greener'". Maybe overall I'm shooting myself in the foot.

RM is committed to modernisation, as is (although I don't remember anyone asking me personally) my Union. But every time I don't send a cheque through the post that's (i) one less letter for RM to convey (ii) one less letter/cheque for A N Other to open/process. Thus with everything there's a knock-on effect (which, I believe, Isaac Newton had something to say about).

Thus I'm prompted to ask, w/r/t the bigger picture and against the background of rising unemployment and a growing population, of RM and the CWU:

When modernisation's complete, exactly how many jobs will be left in RM?

Sorry, been dying to get that off my chest. Feel free to berate me.

[norbert]

imo i think everything you mention is partially responsible for the position the business and its employees find themselves in.

The ways the business was run in the past with all the "perks" was unsustainable, and not fit for purpose.

The staff and CWU have become used to the "perks" (understandable) and find it difficult to adapt. Which comes down to problems with culture/ attitude etc.

Managers are have a very hard job (believe it or not) in challenging the various attitudes as well as managing a business within budgetary constraints.

A lot of (but not all) Managers in the business, are not fit for the job, and should have remained PHGs or have been led into some other supervisory role...

I guess what i mean is.....nobody is blameless.

What perks are there? Two years ago, Crozier said in an interview that he had identified 92 ( then ) current Spanish prctices upheld by the union and the membership, and he detailed 12 of them that were printed in the Daily Telegraph 09/10/2007 ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... spute.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) none of which I have personally experienced, nor heard of happening in 3.5 years, with the exception of the additonal meal and grace breaks, ( but if you have your MR after 3.5 hrs, and then work 2 hrs overtime, you must take at least 20 mins break after 8.5hrs cumlative aka 5hrs since your last break - and that is under EU legislation ).

Even now, we hear the mantra from management & mass media of Spanish practices.....but no one specifies what they are - it isn't because the worst they can find no longer exist to any degree, and have not existed for over 3 years is it? It isn't because any of these practices that do still persist, do so at the behest of local, area and national management, due to their use being of disadvantage or no advantage to the union or their membership? We ask these questions, but no one even dignifies us with an answer - I would ask you, damcka, to answer these questions ( becuase your post seems full of the wrong lexicon and syntax of an opg, but not that of an LM or DOM either - almost like a manager trying to think like a Blue Army soldier ) but because you might be able to answer those questions for me is the exact reason you will ignore and evade those questions.

Crozier was getting battered in the rival Tory papers due to his salary i.e. articles like £3 million reward for failure in 2007 . Those rival papers had his number as he apparently learnt a lesson in humility when spared the sack for falsifying the sales figures whilst working for The Daily Telegraph .

He didn't seem to have much humility when working for the FA , The Premier League Chairmen & Managers ganged up on him demanding his head and the FA didn't raise a finger to protect him . There was complaints about " justifications " for the salaries & bonuses that he'd awarded himself and a arrogant autocratic style of management .

To get Crozier off the hook , the RM Operations MD found 92 versions of the same 12 or so " Spanish Practices " , many ironically were " efficiency drives " introduced by RM management in the 70's that hadn't been used since the 70's , others were local directives in out of the way places . That same Op's MD was allegedly famous for his Victorian Mill Owner management in Scotland , deliberately orchestrating strikes and then starving people back to work . Excellent Industrial Relations ! .

This is the media today , in the early 90's there was a satire on TV news called " Drop the Dead Donkey " and the dumbing down of news . Guy Hamilton said he couldn't do a series like that anymore [b]as news is dumbed down beyond parody - just spin , yellow spiked news and meaningless banal soundbites that naive , ignorant , ill -informed & gullible people lap up .

People are more concerned about stupid far fetched soap operas , Care in the Community Talent Shows , non - entity celebrities like Kerry Katona and Jordan , and "reality" shows with the most unreal people that you'd have the misfortune to meet . Big Brother 1984 with a Corporate Twist .
[/b]

[xXPostmanPatXx]

id ask if the strike was a good idea?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

id ask if the strike was a good idea?

Pointless as that's a Union question not a Royal Mail question - keep up please.

[antcpfc]

id ask if the strike was a good idea?

Did you go to school ?