Fresh bid to resolve post dispute

[Destroyer]

Ever since the 2007 agreement all ive had is a knife in my back - i think ive recieved a bit of personal treatment from my reps & manager.

[mr deeds]

gonna get sold out again....bbc and crozier"Mr Crozier added that while he hoped an outline agreement would stop the strikes, it would take "a couple of months" to agree any final deal. "

just until christmas the pull the deal again...back to square 1

[saga]

If you notice, none of these so-called agreements ever have the words 'legal and binding' on the end of them. This means that they are open to be broken and this is what often happens. We should insist on a water-tight deal with these words on the end before any agreement is voted on.

[Destroyer]

gonna get sold out again....bbc and crozier"Mr Crozier added that while he hoped an outline agreement would stop the strikes, it would take "a couple of months" to agree any final deal. "

just until christmas the pull the deal again...back to square 1

Yeah what a snake he really is....

[Martin Walsh]

In this country we do not have legally binding agreements. So every agreement is open to abuse on both sides what we are trying to do is to ensure acas oversee any future agreement to limit any breaches. However we are not near an agreement and everyone knows that we dont want to sign up to no action before christmas. However the talks that are taking place are about regagment on those offices where executive action has taken place and providing a framework for negotations on the bigger issues. This framework also resolves issues around the harrassment and appendix 4 issues.

However lets be frank on the future of deliveries the issues at the heart of the future are complex and detailed such as long delivery spans ,later last delivery letter of 3 for towns and cities and 4 for rural , longer attendances but fewer saturday , d2d into workload and a weekly supplement , revison methods , agreed standards , walk sequencing and the new workplan. That detail is impossible to deal with in a week of negotations.

Equally on mail centres the changes to work plan , the number of closure of mail centres , the impact of siso and the impact from network 09 and the later last letter for deliveries.

On top of this the benefits package and job sercurity issues need to be worked up.

So what we want cannot be resolved overnight but equally we cannot sign up to no further strikes before christmas which is why the cwu suggusted a 2 week pause in order to gauage whether Royal Mail were serious in moving forward the offices where Royal Mail have imposed revisons and also whether they were serious in moving the bigger talks forward. Royal Mail never came back to the CWU on this hence the fact that the action went forward.

[dvbuk55]

However lets be frank on the future of deliveries the issues at the heart of the future are complex and detailed such as long delivery spans ,later last delivery letter of 3 for towns and cities and 4 for rural , longer attendances but fewer saturday , d2d into workload and a weekly supplement , revison methods , agreed standards , walk sequencing and the new workplan. That detail is impossible to deal with in a week of negotations.

I don't think anyone thinks that all the ills are going to be cured in a single shot, nor in fact do any of us who work in DOs that have had working practices imposed, think we are going to get any joy on going backwards. What we do want is an agreement for a realistic and equal workload rather than a mix and match of part time and full time duties which does NOT reflect the workload. There should be a correlation between the overtime worked by part timers and the actual contractual hours.

I must say that as the 2007 agreement has been in for 2 years I am surprised that we haven't been working towards all the points you have raised in the paragraph reproduced above - I mean, hasn't there been working parties and trials. Is there no inkling as to what is required and what we are prepared to do and how much for, by anyone? If not, then that shows a marked lack of forward thinking and planning.

[Martin Walsh]

This dispute is much greater then the pay and mod 2007. For one this is about control and whether you have a say in your future. Yes people were disapointed in the confusing and fudged pay and mod deal.

However I think everyone and I mean everyone has learnt a lesson form that. Thats why the talks have yet to reach any time of vote on the PEC and that the PEC will agree further action later today. In London we have already taken 18 days and the support from our members has been amazing. We have taken sides in this dispute and we are going to continue to fight until we get what we believe is the right agreement to resolving the impostion of change and the longer term agreements.

I was a member of one of the joint working parties and we met 4 times and didt reach any conclusions. All the other joint working parties met less and didt reach any conclusions either.

No this boils down to the fact Royal Mail does not want the union to agree what happens to your jobs and conditions in the future. We all know the reason why !! Its is to allow them to cut jobs and slash conditions to the workforce without them being protected by the union.

[dvbuk55]

This dispute is much greater then the pay and mod 2007. For one this is about control and whether you have a say in your future. Yes people were disapointed in the confusing and fudged pay and mod deal.

However I think everyone and I mean everyone has learnt a lesson form that. Thats why the talks have yet to reach any time of vote on the PEC and that the PEC will agree further action later today. In London we have already taken 18 days and the support from our members has been amazing. We have taken sides in this dispute and we are going to continue to fight until we get what we believe is the right agreement to resolving the impostion of change and the longer term agreements.

I was a member of one of the joint working parties and we met 4 times and didt reach any conclusions. All the other joint working parties met less and didt reach any conclusions either.

No this boils down to the fact Royal Mail does not want the union to agree what happens to your jobs and conditions in the future. We all know the reason why !! Its is to allow them to cut jobs and slash conditions to the workforce without them being protected by the union.

Oddly enough right after I posted the previous post there was a report on TV about the TNT postal workers in Holland who are undergoiing almost an identical problem. There they also have another delivery service called I think Sands (?) who work for less BUT only deliver twice a week. TNT as you know have a part time delivery structure and are now moving towards a self employed postman - I dread to think what this industry will look like if:

a. The CWU lose.
b. When the Tories get in.

[disheartened]

This dispute is much greater then the pay and mod 2007. For one this is about control and whether you have a say in your future. Yes people were disapointed in the confusing and fudged pay and mod deal.

However I think everyone and I mean everyone has learnt a lesson form that. Thats why the talks have yet to reach any time of vote on the PEC and that the PEC will agree further action later today. In London we have already taken 18 days and the support from our members has been amazing. We have taken sides in this dispute and we are going to continue to fight until we get what we believe is the right agreement to resolving the impostion of change and the longer term agreements.

I was a member of one of the joint working parties and we met 4 times and didt reach any conclusions. All the other joint working parties met less and didt reach any conclusions either.

No this boils down to the fact Royal Mail does not want the union to agree what happens to your jobs and conditions in the future. We all know the reason why !! Its is to allow them to cut jobs and slash conditions to the workforce without them being protected by the union.

Oddly enough right after I posted the previous post there was a report on TV about the TNT postal workers in Holland who are undergoiing almost an identical problem. There they also have another delivery service called I think Sands (?) who work for less BUT only deliver twice a week. TNT as you know have a part time delivery structure and are now moving towards a self employed postman - I dread to think what this industry will look like if:

a. The CWU lose.
b. When the Tories get in.

My prediction is when the Tories get in next year,they will sell Royal Mail to TNT for rock bottom price and part of the deal is thet the goverment will plug the hole in the pensions,obiviously the Royal Mail name will dissappear,dont hink "her maj" will allow TNT to take the name as well

I feel sure TNT have already been told dont set up your own letter delivery network,we will sell you ours,i believe in 2012 the doors will be open for anyone to set up their own letter delivery service.

[DirtyHarry]

I'm sure, "her maj", can be bought and sold, whichever whim dictates, just like pretty much evrybody else in the UK today.

[dvbuk55]

I'm sure, "her maj", can be bought and sold, whichever whim dictates, just like pretty much evrybody else in the UK today.

Buckingham Palace could well be renamed The House of Orange - or has that already been done

[DGP1]

i believe in 2012 the doors will be open for anyone to set up their own letter delivery service.

I believe that is already in existence, it's just that none of our competition wants to set up thier own network because of the costs involved.

[k979aaa]

Dingo what of the thirty five hour working week without loss of pay nor breaks is this and and an anti bully policy in the agreement tabled to royalmail!.

[NWpostie]

This dispute is much greater then the pay and mod 2007. For one this is about control and whether you have a say in your future. Yes people were disapointed in the confusing and fudged pay and mod deal.

However I think everyone and I mean everyone has learnt a lesson form that. Thats why the talks have yet to reach any time of vote on the PEC and that the PEC will agree further action later today. In London we have already taken 18 days and the support from our members has been amazing. We have taken sides in this dispute and we are going to continue to fight until we get what we believe is the right agreement to resolving the impostion of change and the longer term agreements.

I was a member of one of the joint working parties and we met 4 times and didt reach any conclusions. All the other joint working parties met less and didt reach any conclusions either.

No this boils down to the fact Royal Mail does not want the union to agree what happens to your jobs and conditions in the future. We all know the reason why !! Its is to allow them to cut jobs and slash conditions to the workforce without them being protected by the union.

Oddly enough right after I posted the previous post there was a report on TV about the TNT postal workers in Holland who are undergoiing almost an identical problem. There they also have another delivery service called I think Sands (?) who work for less BUT only deliver twice a week. TNT as you know have a part time delivery structure and are now moving towards a self employed postman - I dread to think what this industry will look like if:

a. The CWU lose.
b. When the Tories get in.

My prediction is when the Tories get in next year,they will sell Royal Mail to TNT for rock bottom price and part of the deal is thet the goverment will plug the hole in the pensions,obiviously the Royal Mail name will dissappear,dont hink "her maj" will allow TNT to take the name as well

I feel sure TNT have already been told dont set up your own letter delivery network,we will sell you ours,i believe in 2012 the doors will be open for anyone to set up their own letter delivery service.

If that happens I will be taking VR should it comes up after the merger.

[concerned]

My prediction is when the Tories get in next year,they will sell Royal Mail to TNT for rock bottom price and part of the deal is thet the goverment will plug the hole in the pensions,obiviously the Royal Mail name will dissappear,dont hink "her maj" will allow TNT to take the name as well

I feel sure TNT have already been told dont set up your own letter delivery network,we will sell you ours,i believe in 2012 the doors will be open for anyone to set up their own letter delivery service.[/quote]

agreed, but you could almost think that there is a 'deal' going on with TNT for them to get it at a rock bottom price in return for something. Because, why would a government who own this company allow IA to continue possibley running it into the gound to make it worthless? It would (normally) be in the interest to resolve this asap to not lose any business with the idea a private buyer would sort the workforce. Me thinks TNT have said their amount and the government need to justify selling it for that price as it is way way low.....