TALKS UPDATE

[oypostie]

So using the Royal Mail method of assuming all the non-voters were NOs we have only 51,260 out of 126,035 voting for the deal. That's not much over 40% so surely we rejected the deal and it doesn't count

[shedboy]

My feeling is that if we lose this fight, or even compromise to the very point of defeat, we're all shafted jobwise anyway so if we're not happy with the outcome of these talks it's up to us to let our reps know and carry the fight on :mfo :mfo

[chewi]

cos it didn't work last time

NO SURRENDER

[lovejoy]

Maybe we should wait and see what comes out before we judge it.

2007 will be right at the front of all of the thought of every PEC member. If the action is stood down then it will only be if that committee are 100% sure that it is the right thing to do - they know they will suffer with deselection if not!

If you look at where we were in April 09 then we have already moved RM massively. Back then they didnt even want to know us. Now thanks to local action in London. Scotland, Bristol etc we have brought them back around the table.

My own personal opinion is that we are not going to get an agreement on the future of the industry in 1 days talks. On that basis at some point we are going to have to enter a period of calm. Surely it is better for example to stand down the action now for a period rather than later on?!?!......... that way if negotiations fail then RM are staring down the barrel at xmas.

I know this means they will clear some of the backlog but any of you with a bit of common sense will see that the big players in this dispute are the Media, businesses and Christmas not the immediate backlog. If we were to resume action in Mid November then we could recreate a massive backlog within 2 days of action due to the high mail levels.

I'm not saying that the PEC will call off the action tomorrow. I am just saying that lets judge what happens when it happens not based on the past.

[BELIAL]

My own personal opinion is that we are not going to get an agreement on the future of the industry in 1 days talks. On that basis at some point we are going to have to enter a period of calm. Surely it is better for example to stand down the action now for a period rather than later on?!?!......... that way if negotiations fail then RM are staring down the barrel at xmas.

I could not disagree more. The only point at which we can call off our action is when an acceptable agreement has been signed.
The alternative is a re run of 2007 and national officials saying that acceptance was our only option because of flaky branches. RM are already staring down a barrel why let them out of our sights to creep up behind us again. Not much point letting RM regroup with a suspension of action because they will simply up the propaganda and intimidation in the workplace.

[dvbuk55]

Maybe we should wait and see what comes out before we judge it.

2007 will be right at the front of all of the thought of every PEC member. If the action is stood down then it will only be if that committee are 100% sure that it is the right thing to do - they know they will suffer with deselection if not!

If you look at where we were in April 09 then we have already moved RM massively. Back then they didnt even want to know us. Now thanks to local action in London. Scotland, Bristol etc we have brought them back around the table.

My own personal opinion is that we are not going to get an agreement on the future of the industry in 1 days talks. On that basis at some point we are going to have to enter a period of calm. Surely it is better for example to stand down the action now for a period rather than later on?!?!......... that way if negotiations fail then RM are staring down the barrel at xmas.

I know this means they will clear some of the backlog but any of you with a bit of common sense will see that the big players in this dispute are the Media, businesses and Christmas not the immediate backlog. If we were to resume action in Mid November then we could recreate a massive backlog within 2 days of action due to the high mail levels.

I'm not saying that the PEC will call off the action tomorrow. I am just saying that lets judge what happens when it happens not based on the past.

Do you know what they call experience Lovejoy - it's making a judgement on knowledge of the past and our experience of the past in these circumstances is not good. Why shouldn't we continue the strikes? I don't know where you come from but it is very difficult to get a strike rolling with the support at grass roots we have now - I would liken it to a juggernaut, it isn't a circular bus service that you can keep stopping and starting. If the decision is to stop the strike action now, when RM are at the table and worried we would be playing into their hands.

And as it happens LJ RM only came to the table when the National Ballot was called, RM didn't seem to be too concerned about "localised" disputes, they expected the vote to be less effective than it proved to be and that was a bad judgement call, if we call off the strikes now that would be a bad judgement call - lets keep the strikes rolling, keep the backlog growing and watch RM sweat.

And lets not threaten the PEC with being deselected, the grass roots membership have more intelligence and "common sense" than to think that would happen - a bit like changing the leadership, it isn't going to happen - you know it, I know it and they know it. What is more likely is that everyone will stay where they are except the membership who will justifiably think their money would be better spent elsewhere.

[Bluebird]

My own personal opinion is that we are not going to get an agreement on the future of the industry in 1 days talks. On that basis at some point we are going to have to enter a period of calm. Surely it is better for example to stand down the action now for a period rather than later on?!?!......... that way if negotiations fail then RM are staring down the barrel at xmas.

I could not disagree more. The only point at which we can call off our action is when an acceptable agreement has been signed.
The alternative is a re run of 2007 and national officials saying that acceptance was our only option because of flaky branches. RM are already staring down a barrel why let them out of our sights to creep up behind us again. Not much point letting RM regroup with a suspension of action because they will simply up the propaganda and intimidation in the workplace.

Well said, the intimidation and bullying will increase 10 fold, propaganda will be the flavour of the day, we have the upper hand right now let us keep it that way..

[Lincox]

Just read the report on the cwu website regarding action groups etc and other unions giving support. There is a note from one of them about a leeked document from a senior manager, congratulating his subordinate managers for bullying through changes without union agreement. If this doesnt finally prove the point about these bullying t...ss rs then nothing will. Part of the agreement should be an immediate independant enquiry, no holds barred, into what this scheming load of bs have been up to and immediate dismissal for those proven to be responsible. Any line manager that has accusations against him should be immediately suspended without pay until an enquiry into the allegations has been completed. Whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.

[chewi]

As I understand it these talks are about a framework for negotiation. Not an agreement over the issues. As such both sides have to have faith in the good will and honest intentions of the other.

Get real!!!!!!

We are dealing with RM Senior Management.

It needs to be pinned down so it can't be moved.

No ambiguities. No weasel words.

It needs to be as it says on the tin.

If they haven't made firm commitments then blow them out

And get the message out LOUD to the public

[CustomerConnieagain]

The fact that the possibility of calling off this week's strikes has been mentioned means it's possible. Reading this forum tonight it looks like that's the last thing a lot of you want. So if the Union leaders agree to call of the strike and the members disagree, what happens then? Can workers just strike anyway, or have they got to go back even if they don't agree with the decision?

[alan84]

The fact that the possibility of calling off this week's strikes has been mentioned means it's possible. Reading this forum tonight it looks like that's the last thing a lot of you want. So if the Union leaders agree to call of the strike and the members disagree, what happens then? Can workers just strike anyway, or have they got to go back even if they don't agree with the decision?

thats a good question what do we do???

[dvbuk55]

The fact that the possibility of calling off this week's strikes has been mentioned means it's possible. Reading this forum tonight it looks like that's the last thing a lot of you want. So if the Union leaders agree to call of the strike and the members disagree, what happens then? Can workers just strike anyway, or have they got to go back even if they don't agree with the decision?

Well as distasteful as it would be, we would have to go back to work and finally realise that the bullying and harrassment, the excessive workloads, the intransigent management has not been recognised by our union as a problem and so we would have to order loads of vaseline again

[alangate]

Sky News saying a decision will be made over the strikes tomorrow afternoon.

fingers crossed we're not sold down the river again

Hi Gang

If it goes down to local level we have lost out like last time

In my area the management have in plan their plan for 2010 already

We need to be strong and stop the fighting between ourselves and start working as a unit

Good luck

[pickaname]

No cancellation of strikes until a real deal is agreed. Maybe the union could strike for one day per month just to keep the ballot live ready for the new year?

In any case, Royal Mail will just state their current position in talks over Christmas and then start their unagreed changes again in January.

Can the CWU not see this?

[Geezer]

If Dave and Billy go to PEC and recommend calling off the strikes before we get an agreement that is unambiguous and doesn't stands up to scrutiny then the CWU is finished.
Royal Mail want one thing and one thing only at this moment in time and that's for the strikes to stop and us to work our butts off to clear the back log and get them through the Christmas period.
Then as their leaked document stated they will carry on with their master plan weather the Union and the Membership like it or not.At this point in time we have more public support than RM,
and a Membership that is up for the Fight,So if the CWU want to keep the Members with them, They will need to show some true leadership and not fall for RM's stalling tactics.

Billy and Dave need to understand that this is theirs and our last chance and if they get it wrong this time as they did in 2007, then them and the CWU will be history.

This is theirs and our last chance.