Morning Star needs postmen to explain why they're striking

[axeman]

still no mention of direct bags then tman ? who counts the manual then ? guess it's recorded ......but how much per tray ? selective ?

no the unstamped is just sorted as the hours taken out mean fewer staff to run the machines etc.....so it just gets thrown in the bags and off it goes

[opgpat]

if it's been through a machine, it's been counted.

how come now MCs can be amalgamated and closed when up to a couple of years ago they were working twenty four hours a day six/seven days a week?

IF it's been through a machine indeed. How much DSA mail is put through put through our machines then? I was under the impression dsa mail arrives at the MC bundled and boxed ready for forwarding to Delivery Offices. It makes up much of the mail we see!

Why can Mail Centres be amalgamated?!?!? Because 65,000 jobs have been cut in 5 years. Because 7000 post offices have been closed meaning mail is collected from a less sparse network needing fewer centres. Because mail is delivered to us already sequenced directly from UK MAIL and TNT. Because our processing machines have been updated and the new ones are far far faster meaning we need less floor space and fewer staff!!! That last one is as obvious as it gets, for if you read the Courier you'll see they are always banging on about faster processing machines being run by a minimal crew.

You seem to be trusting the companie's figures which is surprising. All you need to actually do is look at the volume of mail each postman now carries. Walk A 10 years ago 2 bags. Walk A today 6 bags. Yeah yeah yeah volumes are down lol.

What you also need to remember is that vol is only ONE relevant figure. Mail is actually partly priced by weight! Total mail-traffic weight is not mentioned in the RM figures making them a completely unconvincing estimate of workload and more crucially for the companys argument, revenue.


.

[POSTMAN]

Ok,Tman i understand what you are saying regarding if it goes through the machine then it is counted.

Now i have asked this question on this fecking forum a thousand times and i have NEVER had an answer from anyone.
And i now quote myself from the infamous 'Who believes mail volumes are falling?' thread in the poll forum.
check it out guys it's a great read lol

I've said it before and i'll say it again.........
When a DSM stands in front of me and tells me the traffic figures of the day and it works out about 500 letters per frame and the frames we're having the conversation in front of (average 550 calls) are bulging with mail.....................
Then summin aint right!!! FFS!

I thank you

[Run Postie Run]

Thank you OPGPat for your comments regarding absorbtion and flexi time. I agree with what you are saying entirely what I was trying to point out is that whilst some offices are being asked to flex once a week some are being asked and carrying out flexing on a daily basis. Its like a form of built in overtime.

I recently refused to be paid when I went over my Tuesday by 50 minutes saying that I should have more options than taking the money. I told my line manager that I only wanted to work for 40 hours and as such I would take back the 50 minutes owed on Friday should I not have made up the time before hand. He told me I was not allowed to do that. I insisted. After conferring with my DOM he told me I could come in 50 minutes later in the morning as I was not allowed to cut off 50 minutes before the end of my shift. I accepted this but in hindsight I realised that this would mean my colleagues would be carrying that 50 minutes because whilst I should be sorting at this time in the morning I would not be there. I felt as if my line manager had taken the time off my colleagues.

There are no longer any incidents in my office where someone is asked to do something. You are told. I know my line manager has told me on several occasions that "I know what I can do if I dont like it" its a horrible thing to be told. They dont give two hoots but then this could come down to greed. What kind of pleasure does a line manager or a DOM get from their work at the moment. I would struggle to think of any. Except the bonuses. If I leave and I am not replaced or in the worse instance a part timer comes in and fills my shoes then my DOM and line managers get bonuses based on the savings my departure has created. Great system. I sometimes think my DOM has massive monetary problems because the way in which he cuts absolutely everything in our office is leading to just one thing, him becoming a lot richer !

[opgpat]

I sometimes think my DOM has massive monetary problems because the way in which he cuts absolutely everything in our office is leading to just one thing, him becoming a lot richer !

Great post Run. '
Yes what motivates Delivery Office Managers is their 'performance bonuses' without doubt. For every 10% they successfully cut each year as inline with RM new guidlines, they get a huge bonus. Word had it at our DO that the bonus the DOM got last year paid for a substantial item outright. We're talking in the 5-15 grand mark per DOM so that's why their humanity and sense of right and wrong has gone out the window. You are a piece of dirt in their way now, like the rest of us.

Agree what is going on in your office is an outrage and totally against the spirit of the agreement which was for use during occasional unexpected issues. You are being taken for a ride by your DOM, the agreement says 'This is not about employees not knowing ... when they start and finish from one day to the next'. But clearly if it is used almost daily that is the case. Also you should not refuse a reasonable request but by the terms of the agreement, if it's use on a daily basis that is an unreasonable request. ALSO, Flexi-time is voluntary in that 'individual circumstances will be taken into account'. So if you have family or other commitments etc you can't do it full-stop.

What you can also do is this. Manager asks you to flex. If it is a day when you have personal circumstances preventing you running over eg u need to to pick up family member/ get ready for appointment/ have sore back/ have a cold comming on and it's raining etc then you can not be forced to work past your hours. If he insists tell him his request is against the 2007 agreement's terms on flexibility based on his disregard of individual circumstances and refuse. If he threatens you with diciplinary action continue as normal and get a bullying complaint form in. If he actually diciplins you you should be OK as he is going against the letter of the agreement and any employment tribunal should see that esp if you have a valid reason for not being able to work on. Also quote the 'reasonable request' section (after being asked twice in a week to flex) and say it is NOT reasonable to be asked to flex almost every day. Also ask the reason for a flex request and write it down for your evidence.


Speak to your rep about the way managers are talking to you. You don't go into work to be bullied and threatened. You should start writing down when you are threatened/bullied. When you have a few weeks worth of dates with what was said advise your manager the next time he tries it on that he is bullying and intimidating on this issue you and you want it to stop. If after you have advised the manager he is bullying you it continues (that day or in the future) you have the case for a continuing bullying and harrasment complaint which will have plenty of supportive evidence.



FINAL AGREEMENT

CWU AND ROYAL MAIL PAY AND MODERNISATION AGREEMENT - APRIL 2007/2009

• Variation of hours – Where necessary, for example when traffic volumes are unexpectedly high or resourcing issues arise, individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes on a swings and roundabouts basis. Again, individual circumstances will be taken into account and total weekly contractual hours would not change.

•New ways of working – Employees will be treated fairly, with respect, and will be expected to be flexible.

•It is all about managers, reps and employees working together sensibly with a bit of give and take, applying equally to all. This is not about employees not knowing what job they are on, or when they start and finish from one day to the next. Nor is it about anyone refusing reasonable requests. Account should of course always be taken of individual circumstances.

hope that helps dude.

[Tman]

IF it's been through a machine indeed. How much DSA mail is put through put through our machines then? I was under the impression dsa mail arrives at the MC bundled and boxed ready for forwarding to Delivery Offices. It makes up much of the mail we see!

Funnily enough, it makes up much of the mail MCs see, too. Most of it still needs running through an LSM to break it down either to a DO or further still down to walks (this isn't walk sequencing but walk sorting). Still counted, regardless of being DSA or not.

Why can Mail Centres be amalgamated?!?!? Because 65,000 jobs have been cut in 5 years. Because 7000 post offices have been closed meaning mail is collected from a less sparse network needing fewer centres.

Many of those jobs "cut" weren't MC jobs or even frontline jobs, but if the mail wasn't declining then it would be impossible to cut and amalgamate MCs. POst Offices closing don't come into it.

Because mail is delivered to us already sequenced directly from UK MAIL and TNT. Because our processing machines have been updated and the new ones are far far faster meaning we need less floor space and fewer staff!!! That last one is as obvious as it gets, for if you read the Courier you'll see they are always banging on about faster processing machines being run by a minimal crew.

Except (regardles of what the Courier may say) RM haven't bought any new automation (other than CSSs) since the early 1990s. The automation is still the same old IMPs/MTTs and the rest, so that point doesn't hold water either. IMPS had a minor upgrade some years ago, but that was to improve read-rates and didn't lead to job losses or MCs closing.
TNT mail doesn't come into any MC I know already sequenced, either.

You seem to be trusting the companie's figures which is surprising.

Actually, as the maintenance is based on hours run and letters sorted (as is most plant and machinery these days) then technically those figures aren't RMs, but mine. Equally, on high-speed production machinery (which it is) performance can only be checked and monitored using on-board PCs and these give the totals, rejects, code types, plans run, jams, run time, processing time, operator log on/log off times and the rest. It's all there.

All you need to actually do is look at the volume of mail each postman now carries. Walk A 10 years ago 2 bags. Walk A today 6 bags. Yeah yeah yeah volumes are down lol

.


How many posties carrying how many bags is a whole different argument, and has no bearing on this thread. Mentioning the number of bags as some sort of rebuttal to the claim that volumes have dropped,( when you've already mentioned job cuts etc) is pointless.

[opgpat]

How many posties carrying how many bags is a whole different argument, and has no bearing on this thread. Mentioning the number of bags as some sort of rebuttal to the claim that volumes have dropped,( when you've already mentioned job cuts etc) is pointless.

The whole point I am making is simple and is this - RM use the 'falling mail' argument to suggest postmen are working less hard than before, that revenues are down and that jobs need cut. Look at any DO and tell me any of that logic holds water.

Most rounds are longer now but certainly not by 3x. Packets are more common but don't account for 4 extra bags per day. Maybe letters are heavier these days? But then revenue is still up as pricing is by weight as well as size.

Flats are not counted by your machines and don't pretend they are! How many more flats are there today than 1999? And how much has their average weight increased by? We all know the buggers that come in close to a kilo each. That is all more revenue and more work. Flats probablly make up 1/4 to 1/2 of a round I'd guess by weight. In summary, counting just small letters tells us not even half the picture yet RM use their numbers as the holy bible.

btw you said 'most' DSA is counted? Could lets say....10% go through uncounted???

[opgpat]

In the last year I have honestly noticed an increased number of stamped letters that are not being cancelled out. Does this mean they have not gone through a machine and therefore not counted?

No, as stamped mail then go through an MTT or IMP and NP4000 where they will be counted.

I don't understand how a letter with an uncancelled stamp and no code printed on it can be counted? How can the machine keep tabs on 'blank' items? Also see a lot of uncancelled items.

[Tman]

The whole point I am making is simple and is this - RM use the 'falling mail' argument to suggest postmen are working less hard than before, that revenues are down and that jobs need cut.

That's not an argument I've ever taken part in. My standpoint is that letter volumes have dropped in an unprecendented fashion over the last few years, and that's a proven fact. If RM are beating you over the head with this re job cuts etc then obviously you'll fight back, but you can't say RM are misrepresenting the truth when they say letters have reduced, and then as "proof" of this offer the old "but my bag's heavier now" argument. That won't hold up.

Flats are not counted by your machines and don't pretend they are!

No, they're not, but that maybe because "my" machines don't run or process flats?

tw you said 'most' DSA is counted? Could lets say....10% go through uncounted???

I said "most" because as we know in this firm pallets get sent to the wrong destination. What should be unloaded and go in to an MC for processing can be sent on to a DO somewhere just because it may have that DO as the delivery area.
Shouldn't happen, as there'd be no point in printing CBC codes otherwise.

[Tman]

I don't understand how a letter with an uncancelled stamp and no code printed on it can be counted? How can the machine keep tabs on 'blank' items? Also see a lot of uncancelled items.

You've got several point in one there. There shouldn't be any unfranked CFC mail, but standards seem to have slipped. We used to have three dedicated "inkers" who looked after the CFCs and SCM dates, pads and ink, but now it seems to be any passing postie's job.
If there are no codes then it's been rejected or is unmachineable for some reason. It's not unknown for manual sections to grab work just to keep staff busy at slack times, though..

These uncoded etc reject letters are no big deal though. Out of maybe 1-1.5 million items processed a day, three or four thousand uncodeds won't lead to a DO closing.......

[opgpat]

Yeah I know flats don't go thru machines that's why i said the machines don't count them. You didn't think I thought they were machine processed but for some reason not counted did you?!

'you can't say RM are misrepresenting the truth when they say letters have reduced'

Yes I can cause that's what they are doing. By trotting out the 'letters vol has fallen' line but NOT mention at the same time that packets are up, magazines are up and heavier, rounds have been made bigger, posties now carry 3x more mail, there are 60,000 fewer staff in the buisness, is actually a complete and intentional misrepresentation of the truth! It's called telling half-truths which is a very clever way to decieve people.

Lets say I was a mechanic and I fixed you car and said 'Well I looked at the gear box and I looked at the alternator. Nothing needed replacing, here's the bill for the inspection work, 300quid' You would naturally think I had taken apart and examined the components hence the huge bill. But actually all I said was I 'looked' at them. This I did, it took me about 10seconds in total! That's a half-truth much like saying 'letters have fallen so we need to make cuts' is.

Here's another "I'm a really good driver. In the past thirty years, I have gotten only four speeding tickets"* This statement is true, but a bit misleading if the speaker has written off 10 cars in those 30 years.

So in essence if small letters vol HAS fallen that's of no consequnce as a stand-alone fact because total workoad per postie is up 3x so profits must also be up significantly. A staff cut of 60,000+ probablly saves the company 900Million plus per year in wages alone (before pension contributions).

[Tman]

So in essence if small letters vol HAS fallen that's of no consequnce as a stand-alone fact

But that's the "stand alone fact" that all this long-running debate centres around. How it affects different parts of the business, and the staff in those parts is a seperate issue.

[opgpat]

OK I can see that esp if small letters are your life-blood. Unfortunately not just fewer small letters but introducing more machines is also going to make indoors work more efficient and lead to a cut in staff numbers. I would maintain that RM need more delivery staff to ease the burden of 8bags a day per postie. So these indoor staff should be allowed to transfere to deliveries so that staff cuts are minimalised.

:cfo :mfo

[Tman]

I would maintain that RM need more delivery staff to ease the burden of 8bags a day per postie. So these indoor staff should be allowed to transfere to deliveries so that staff cuts are minimalised.

In my MC it's common to see operators doing O/T on deliveries or driving duties, and at repick times DO staff come onto mech duties and vice versa.
"Should be allowed" doesn't apply, as they do it already.

[axeman]

depending on the day ie mon tue etc... the unstamped items increase not simply a miss ..i think not not a case of falling standards either ...just if you ain't got the staff then somethings got to give . As for one or two items your obviously on planet royal fail speak i see average 5-10 items daily multiply that throught the land and i really think we have a problem don't you. i know your oblivious to any failings royal fail has aren't you but a reality check is overdue