ROYAL MAIL DISPUTE: LEAKED ROYAL MAIL STRATEGY DOCUMENT

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I'm a customer and I've been lurking on here for a while.

Strange as to "Lurk" on most sections of RMC you need to register yet just by clicking on your username - which any member can do - I found this interesting information:

Joined:
Yesterday, 10:44 pm
Last visited:
Yesterday, 11:20 pm

Fair enough you may hold these views, ill informed they might be as well, however, please do not pretend facts which can be checked quite easily by any member.

[mailman337]

Way to go Trueblue, another one spirals down to crash and burn!!!!! :cfo :cfo :mfo :mfo :mfo :mfo :mfo :mfo

[norbert]

Way to go Trueblue, another one spirals down to crash and burn!!!!! :cfo :cfo :mfo :mfo :mfo :mfo :mfo :mfo

" Connie " sounds very Hellmail - that union bashing site which RM managers have used for a source of propaganda

[mailman337]

Way to go Trueblue, another one spirals down to crash and burn!!!!! :cfo :cfo :mfo :mfo :mfo :mfo :mfo :mfo

" Connie " sounds very Hellmail - that union bashing site which RM managers have used for a source of propaganda

Yep!!

[Funked!]

Connie,
whose packages have already gone astray, pay cheques haven't turned up, time sheets didn't get to them in time so they didn't get their overtime, official documents of all sorts which haven't turned up, small business owners who haven't received the parts they need etc etc. It goes on and on. And that's just the fall-out from the unofficial strikes, the great British Public hasn't even started yet.

From your post, get use to this service if the Posties do lose!
What unofficial action ?

Your father would be proud!.

[BELIAL]

To be honest guys I'd just take that poster as someone trying to throw the debate off track.

We need to ignore him and focus on the document. Every single one of us needs to make sure we speak to all of our colleagues and let them know the truth.

Royal Mail want to smash this Union. Whatever you think of the CWU, without it you would face the bullies on your own!

Royal Mail wants to sail through this dispute, get a deal (or not) then after Christmas announce a further closure plan. this cannot be allowed to happen. The future Mail Centre and Network structure has to be agreed NOW.

The delivery plans are bordering on a joke. No pay rise this year then take another hit on your D2D, work longer than ever and basically adopt a yes sir, no sir approach.

If we stand by and let Royal Mail win this dispute then our working lives are finished. This is the greatest industrial dispute of our time but do not be fooled by the right wing media painting us as the next miners! Firstly we've had a ballot, secondly we are not on an all out strike and Royal Mail hate it that the strikes have (in the main) stayed official and given us tactical control of the dispute. Most importantly though unlike the miners who took action in the summer when coal was not needed we are heading at 100mph into the heaviest period of the year!!

The way I see it we all have a very simple choice. We can lay down and die alongside lowlife, soul selling, strike breaking managers or we can stand up and fight for the future of our industry.

I know where I'll be - on the picket line as there is no way i want to tell my grandchildren in 20 years that I crossed the picket line and handed my industry over to bullies and unelected, unsupported fat cats, WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT!!!!!!

[CustomerConnieagain]

On and on ,same old scripted spiel .

document comes out showing RM in a very bad light , then all these rabid tories come out of the woodwork sounding like a Daily Express editorial to disrupt things . Interesting

the hundreds of unemployed drivers sounds like the Thatcher / McGregor strategy - " Recruit non - union drivers " - it's 2009 not the 80's anymore

Yeh ,much the same as 2007 but with a twist. Still doing the same old "you're doomed" "union is ripping you off" stuff but they refined the approach a bit to exploit the free speech/fairplay loophole to slip in under the radar. Funny how this time, instead of being loyal union members who have all seen the light, they are now all sorely disappointed customers who are immune from criticism even though they can spout the management handbook chapter and verse
You gotta admire their talent for spotting and exploiting a weakness.

So today it's announced that 30,000 additional staff have been recruited early to deal with post 'in between strikes' to avoid the backlog, plus I'd already read about the warehouse hiring and additional drivers in the week. I'm not 'management on my laptop', I'm not an 'insider', I'm not a 'Tory' etc etc... the utter arrogance on this forum will be your downfall because you are NOT LISTENING. This is a public forum, any member of the public can come on here, register and post, just like I did. And I'd been lurking on my husband's profile before which is why I only registered a few minutes before my post on Friday night - so you're wrong there too.

Anyone that comes on this forum with an opinion other than 'management are scum, union are right and we're going to fight them and win' are shot down in flames. Well that's up to you obviously. But you are wrong, and the few lone voices who dare to speak and say 'maybe this is a trap and we're in trouble' are going to be proven right.

For your information I'm a 32 year old woman with 3 kids who (apparently) has nothing better to do with her life but to read all the information in the public domain, of which there is masses. I've never been a manager in Royal Mail, or anywhere else for that matter. I didn't need to be an insider to find out any of this stuff. Anyone who's worked for a large unionised organisation as I did once (NOT Royal Mail) knows that if you're trouble and/or a striker you're blacklisted and likely to lose your job in the next round of redundancies if management are clever enough to make it happen - any fool like me can work that out, I don't need to have inside information. If you stopped being so self-obsessed and punchdrunk on the all the macho militant rubbish flying around you might make the time to go to any quality newspaper's website today, read the story about Royal Mail and read what people are saying. None of its any different to what I've said.

I make crafts in my spare time and sell them by post, which is why this strike is likely to affect me more than it would otherwise and why I'm hoping it will get sorted out. Yes I know, you don't care about me. In fact no-one here wants to listen so I'll stop wasting my time - you're behaving just children who put their hands over their ears and shout 'la la la' when there's something you they want to hear. If Nelson Mandela was brought in to mediate you'd call him a useless tosser. No wonder your management are sidelining you and your union.

Good luck to you all, you are going to need it and my sympathy has gone. I will not be posting on here again.

[jaja]

On and on ,same old scripted spiel .

document comes out showing RM in a very bad light , then all these rabid tories come out of the woodwork sounding like a Daily Express editorial to disrupt things . Interesting

the hundreds of unemployed drivers sounds like the Thatcher / McGregor strategy - " Recruit non - union drivers " - it's 2009 not the 80's anymore

Yeh ,much the same as 2007 but with a twist. Still doing the same old "you're doomed" "union is ripping you off" stuff but they refined the approach a bit to exploit the free speech/fairplay loophole to slip in under the radar. Funny how this time, instead of being loyal union members who have all seen the light, they are now all sorely disappointed customers who are immune from criticism even though they can spout the management handbook chapter and verse
You gotta admire their talent for spotting and exploiting a weakness.

So today it's announced that 30,000 additional staff have been recruited early to deal with post 'in between strikes' to avoid the backlog, plus I'd already read about the warehouse hiring and additional drivers in the week. I'm not 'management on my laptop', I'm not an 'insider', I'm not a 'Tory' etc etc... the utter arrogance on this forum will be your downfall because you are NOT LISTENING. This is a public forum, any member of the public can come on here, register and post, just like I did. And I'd been lurking on my husband's profile before which is why I only registered a few minutes before my post on Friday night - so you're wrong there too.

Anyone that comes on this forum with an opinion other than 'management are scum, union are right and we're going to fight them and win' are shot down in flames. Well that's up to you obviously. But you are wrong, and the few lone voices who dare to speak and say 'maybe this is a trap and we're in trouble' are going to be proven right.

For your information I'm a 32 year old woman with 3 kids who (apparently) has nothing better to do with her life but to read all the information in the public domain, of which there is masses. I've never been a manager in Royal Mail, or anywhere else for that matter. I didn't need to be an insider to find out any of this stuff. Anyone who's worked for a large unionised organisation as I did once (NOT Royal Mail) knows that if you're trouble and/or a striker you're blacklisted and likely to lose your job in the next round of redundancies if management are clever enough to make it happen - any fool like me can work that out, I don't need to have inside information. If you stopped being so self-obsessed and punchdrunk on the all the macho militant rubbish flying around you might make the time to go to any quality newspaper's website today, read the story about Royal Mail and read what people are saying. None of its any different to what I've said.

I make crafts in my spare time and sell them by post, which is why this strike is likely to affect me more than it would otherwise and why I'm hoping it will get sorted out. Yes I know, you don't care about me. In fact no-one here wants to listen so I'll stop wasting my time - you're behaving just children who put their hands over their ears and shout 'la la la' when there's something you they want to hear. If Nelson Mandela was brought in to mediate you'd call him a useless tosser. No wonder your management are sidelining you and your union.

Good luck to you all, you are going to need it and my sympathy has gone. I will not be posting on here again.

Thats fine BUT you have not got a clue what goes on in the delivery offices and mail centres, if you worked in deliverys and you were told, (not asked) to take on extra work for nothing, ie working over 8 hours for nothing i think you would agree with us, would you work for nothing.....I dont think so......and thats just scratching the surface.... tell you what... apply or a job in Royal Fail and you will soon change your mind oh and by the way youll have no sick pay, not able to contribute to the pension fund or a year.......and you might get a 10 hour contract....if you lucky.....call that modernisation!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

If you stopped being so self-obsessed and punchdrunk on the all the macho militant rubbish flying around you might make the time to go to any quality newspaper's website today, read the story about Royal Mail and read what people are saying. None of its any different to what I've said.

I make crafts in my spare time and sell them by post, which is why this strike is likely to affect me more than it would otherwise and why I'm hoping it will get sorted out. Yes I know, you don't care about me. In fact no-one here wants to listen so I'll stop wasting my time - you're behaving just children who put their hands over their ears and shout 'la la la' when there's something you they want to hear. If Nelson Mandela was brought in to mediate you'd call him a useless tosser. No wonder your management are sidelining you and your union.

Good luck to you all, you are going to need it and my sympathy has gone. I will not be posting on here again.

Pity I was going to post this

A lot of people are asking why we are striking and that we shouldn't there are other choices. Ok the Choices:

Individuals:

1. Sumbit B&H complaints about managers: Being done in most units when people feel they have been, however reading the board most exceed the time-scales laid down by RM and seem to be found in RMs favour - until they go to ET.
2. Employment Tribunals: We have to exhaust the internal procedure which is covered above but I have heard of the road to an ET taking up to a year. In most cases when an apology from the offender is part of the judgement this is never enforced. Just check out the Burslem stories.
3. Working to Rule - Even following RM guidelines on how to do the job safely and walking/working at a reasonable pace people are being suspended or sent home without pay without due process. Even when they do follow due process its not one agreed with the CWU or one that has been put into our contracts at any point.
4. Refusing Overtime - with the Pay & Mod agreement 30 minute flex section this is being abused as people should be consulted and the time being given back on a swings and roundabout basis. Yet I hear of people getting it back in 5 or 10 minute chunks, never and not being paid the 30 minute overtime. Or even sent home without pay for refusing as they had other commitments.
5. Striking in a controlled manner - Thats what we are about to do but only 1 day per time per unit. This is to let mail still move around the pipeline but allow us to make out legal and valid points
6. All out strike - we can do that if you want and that would really hurt business but that's not what we want we only want our concerns over B&H and poor Industrial relations, abysmal management style addressed.

AS A UNION.

1. Ask for negotiation over an agreement which is failing both sides. Refused by RM
2. Ask for government intervention to get both sides negotiating - Refused by Mandelson
3. Ask for ACAS involvement - Refused by RM and seen as pointless by Mandelson.
4. Ask for independent agencies to come up with a scheme to ensure a "Fair and Balanced Workload" - Refused by Royal Mail.
5. Ask for an independent body to investigate claims of Bullying and Harassment - Refused by RM and consistently denied by them that there is a problem.
6. Ask members to work to the rules laid down by the employer - when they do those members are suspended or sent home without pay as described above.
7. Try to keep the situation of local disputes under control - they tried but at one point they had 500 requests for ballots because of actions by management that were against the P&M agreement of 2007.
8. Ask members to back a strike call - Done - last choice the nuclear option but as all other avenues were exhausted what choice did we have except lay down and accept the indefensible.

[RoyalQuest]

the one which hs been leaked. where can i get a copy please

[TrueBlueTerrier]

the one which hs been leaked. where can i get a copy please

I moved your post to the relevant thread

Check the 1st post of this thread -

[hantsman]

On and on ,same old scripted spiel .

document comes out showing RM in a very bad light , then all these rabid tories come out of the woodwork sounding like a Daily Express editorial to disrupt things . Interesting

the hundreds of unemployed drivers sounds like the Thatcher / McGregor strategy - " Recruit non - union drivers " - it's 2009 not the 80's anymore

Yeh ,much the same as 2007 but with a twist. Still doing the same old "you're doomed" "union is ripping you off" stuff but they refined the approach a bit to exploit the free speech/fairplay loophole to slip in under the radar. Funny how this time, instead of being loyal union members who have all seen the light, they are now all sorely disappointed customers who are immune from criticism even though they can spout the management handbook chapter and verse
You gotta admire their talent for spotting and exploiting a weakness.

.

So today it's announced that 30,000 additional staff have been recruited early to deal with post 'in between strikes' to avoid the backlog, plus I'd already read about the warehouse hiring and additional drivers in the week. I'm not 'management on my laptop', I'm not an 'insider', I'm not a 'Tory' etc etc... the utter arrogance on this forum will be your downfall because you are NOT LISTENING. This is a public forum, any member of the public can come on here, register and post, just like I did. And I'd been lurking on my husband's profile before which is why I only registered a few minutes before my post on Friday night - so you're wrong there too.

Anyone that comes on this forum with an opinion other than 'management are scum, union are right and we're going to fight them and win' are shot down in flames. Well that's up to you obviously. But you are wrong, and the few lone voices who dare to speak and say 'maybe this is a trap and we're in trouble' are going to be proven right.

For your information I'm a 32 year old woman with 3 kids who (apparently) has nothing better to do with her life but to read all the information in the public domain, of which there is masses. I've never been a manager in Royal Mail, or anywhere else for that matter. I didn't need to be an insider to find out any of this stuff. Anyone who's worked for a large unionised organisation as I did once (NOT Royal Mail) knows that if you're trouble and/or a striker you're blacklisted and likely to lose your job in the next round of redundancies if management are clever enough to make it happen - any fool like me can work that out, I don't need to have inside information. If you stopped being so self-obsessed and punchdrunk on the all the macho militant rubbish flying around you might make the time to go to any quality newspaper's website today, read the story about Royal Mail and read what people are saying. None of its any different to what I've said.

I make crafts in my spare time and sell them by post, which is why this strike is likely to affect me more than it would otherwise and why I'm hoping it will get sorted out. Yes I know, you don't care about me. In fact no-one here wants to listen so I'll stop wasting my time - you're behaving just children who put their hands over their ears and shout 'la la la' when there's something you they want to hear. If Nelson Mandela was brought in to mediate you'd call him a useless tosser. No wonder your management are sidelining you and your union.

Good luck to you all, you are going to need it and my sympathy has gone. I will not be posting on here again.

I dont think you have read all the posts on here to be fair, shame you are not coming back on here, you may have learnt something

[CustomerConnieagain]

If you stopped being so self-obsessed and punchdrunk on the all the macho militant rubbish flying around you might make the time to go to any quality newspaper's website today, read the story about Royal Mail and read what people are saying. None of its any different to what I've said.

I make crafts in my spare time and sell them by post, which is why this strike is likely to affect me more than it would otherwise and why I'm hoping it will get sorted out. Yes I know, you don't care about me. In fact no-one here wants to listen so I'll stop wasting my time - you're behaving just children who put their hands over their ears and shout 'la la la' when there's something you they want to hear. If Nelson Mandela was brought in to mediate you'd call him a useless tosser. No wonder your management are sidelining you and your union.

Good luck to you all, you are going to need it and my sympathy has gone. I will not be posting on here again.

Pity I was going to post this

A lot of people are asking why we are striking and that we shouldn't there are other choices. Ok the Choices:

Individuals:

1. Sumbit B&H complaints about managers: Being done in most units when people feel they have been, however reading the board most exceed the time-scales laid down by RM and seem to be found in RMs favour - until they go to ET.
2. Employment Tribunals: We have to exhaust the internal procedure which is covered above but I have heard of the road to an ET taking up to a year. In most cases when an apology from the offender is part of the judgement this is never enforced. Just check out the Burslem stories.
3. Working to Rule - Even following RM guidelines on how to do the job safely and walking/working at a reasonable pace people are being suspended or sent home without pay without due process. Even when they do follow due process its not one agreed with the CWU or one that has been put into our contracts at any point.
4. Refusing Overtime - with the Pay & Mod agreement 30 minute flex section this is being abused as people should be consulted and the time being given back on a swings and roundabout basis. Yet I hear of people getting it back in 5 or 10 minute chunks, never and not being paid the 30 minute overtime. Or even sent home without pay for refusing as they had other commitments.
5. Striking in a controlled manner - Thats what we are about to do but only 1 day per time per unit. This is to let mail still move around the pipeline but allow us to make out legal and valid points
6. All out strike - we can do that if you want and that would really hurt business but that's not what we want we only want our concerns over B&H and poor Industrial relations, abysmal management style addressed.

AS A UNION.

1. Ask for negotiation over an agreement which is failing both sides. Refused by RM
2. Ask for government intervention to get both sides negotiating - Refused by Mandelson
3. Ask for ACAS involvement - Refused by RM and seen as pointless by Mandelson.
4. Ask for independent agencies to come up with a scheme to ensure a "Fair and Balanced Workload" - Refused by Royal Mail.
5. Ask for an independent body to investigate claims of Bullying and Harassment - Refused by RM and consistently denied by them that there is a problem.
6. Ask members to work to the rules laid down by the employer - when they do those members are suspended or sent home without pay as described above.
7. Try to keep the situation of local disputes under control - they tried but at one point they had 500 requests for ballots because of actions by management that were against the P&M agreement of 2007.
8. Ask members to back a strike call - Done - last choice the nuclear option but as all other avenues were exhausted what choice did we have except lay down and accept the indefensible.

I said I wasn't going to post again, I didn't say I wouldn't lurk though did I :o) You've drawn me out already.

Thanks for posting this, it really helps to understand what's going on.

One of the problems here, for me anyhow, is it's all so complicated if you're not a part of Royal Mail. We're just the customers trying to earn a living (in my case crafts and second hand kidswear on Ebay) and we only know what we are told. That said, I have tried really, really hard to get information and understand more than most, not least of all because of my Dad's history as a postman. The press couldn't possibly put this all across in an understandable way even if they were inclined to, you're so close to it and we are not. And I'm sorry but your Union Bosses do you no favours, they appear in interviews trotting out the same old stuff and seem to be entrenched in the dark ages.

So here's a question: I heard that the Union would only agree to arbitration with ACAS involvement if the outcome wasn't binding, hence no point in starting it. Is that true?

I can't remember a single example of when an all-out strike has had a result in favour of the workers who were striking (miners and car workers being obvious examples) and didn't end in tears for customers and staff only. Feel free to give me some examples if I'm wrong.

How can you possibly expect this action to further your cause? Doesn't it just lose big customers who potentially will never come back, p*** off man in the street who doesn't get his package and, ultimately, lose jobs? I've seen this described as 'digging your own graves' on more than one occasion. Surely 'last resort, nothing else has worked' doesn't mean 'right thing to do and it'll get the result we want'?

And can't you set up some kind of private forum where you can let off steam rather than it being so public as it is here? For example a Smilie with Mandy being punched and the words F*** Off on a public forum - is that really an answer? I can only imagine how frustrating this whole situation must be and none of us like Mandy, but seeing stuff like this won't help your cause with people like me and I'm no shrinking violet. Don't imagine Mandy likes it much either and there's a man you don't want to p*** off anymore than he already is.

Anyway I'm sure your members have had enough of me, thanks again
Connie

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So here's a question: I heard that the Union would only agree to arbitration with ACAS involvement if the outcome wasn't binding, hence no point in starting it. Is that true? -

Nope - Billy was on Sky and did not mention any preconditions in fact I'd be surprised if there were any as all we have been asking for all along is 3rd party involvement.

I can't remember a single example of when an all-out strike has had a result in favour of the workers who were striking (miners and car workers being obvious examples) and didn't end in tears for customers and staff only. Feel free to give me some examples if I'm wrong

. - Your not wrong but we not after winning anything all we want basically is a fair days pay for a fairs day work and to be treated fairly and without fear of intimidation - again why we are asking for a 3rd party to measure this so that RM get the same. BTW its not an all out strike - its 2 different strikes on 2 days 1 following the other but posties only striking for 24 hours. Its likely to stay that way so mail will move it will just slow down, we are not striking to damage business and an all out would probably do that. (My opinion only of course)

Surely 'last resort, nothing else has worked' doesn't mean 'right thing to do and it'll get the result we want'?

So one set or workers has to accept what they as bullying and harassment so that others including RM can continue to make profits - at what point does Businesses right to make profit over ride Workers rights. There is always only so far that people will go before they say No and No further - we have reached that and the only 3 options available are:

1. Quit - No Dole etc for a minimum of 6 weeks and living on state benefits to survive - loss of potential customers to small businesses and a greater tax burden for those still working or employing.
2. Accept all the changes whatever they suggest even though we believe it will worsen the service and lead to higher prices in the long run, and to the detriment of our own wages and terms and conditions. Less wages means less money in the system to buy from small businesses.
3. Do our best to get the changes from within, and if that fails carry out legal action sanctioned by a democratic vote.

No 3 for me please and for you in the long run I hope as well. If this is sorted amicably we might not even have to go on strike this week.

And can't you set up some kind of private forum where you can let off steam rather than it being so public as it is here?

The Union had one and so did Royal Mail - both closed them down for reasons unknown. As an unofficial forum there is no way we can limit it to just members of the Union and those working for Royal Mail and anyway we would not be able to communicate with those willing to listen if it was a totally private forum.

Anyway I'm sure your members have had enough of me, thanks again
Connie

--- and I am sure the reverse is the same. I am an old romantic where discussion and exchange of views is concerned. I would rather people on opposing sides argue with conviction and politeness rather than passion and invective - your last post is a fine example and I wish some on my side of the fence would learn to debate rather than name call.

[postal_jedi]

Ever since meeting a postman on the train about 10-15 years ago and being told at length about all the dodges wheezes and scams and restrictive practices that went on, I have been a keen advocate for change, and for the restrictive practices to be thrown out. There was clearly too much union power in the Royal Mail and it was crippling efficiency.

Bet not one of those alleged 'dodges, scams and wheezes' was comparable to claiming £135,600 for expenses, on top of your £63k salary, from the tax payer?