barkersboy wrote:We dont want a ultra left trotskiyte determined to have his own way whatever.
One of us has lost touch with planet earth I'll base my judgement on the weight of comment .
Belial. Are you someone who does not face up to life, always in denial, just determined to be right. We need real leadership of somepone in a real world. I for one will be on the picket line and I have promoted the need for my colleagues to be there. Guess what? With reasoned argument against mangement propoganda posted over every door and windo in the MC they will follow me and our reps
Here is something for you to think about. The member of the union dont all come from London and Liverpool. There are probably a bigger percentage that come from outside large connurbations. These people can make the difference between successful IA or failure and they have to be pursuaded that what we as a union is right. At his time I can tell you that they are puruaded by the reason for IA but they can be easily be pursuade my management to go the other way when they see Billy looking like a total waste of space.
You can be as pompous and patronising as you like but you will never convince me that good old Billy is an ultra left trotskyist
Billy Hayes is a hopeless public speaker and should not be doing any interviews. He mumbles and can only remember one thing per interview so repeats it again and again.
'It takes two to tango, it takes two to tango, it takes two to tango'
'Acas Acas Acas'
And the part where the interviewer asked if the CWU would stop donations to Labour as 98% of the membes voted for it was painful. He clearly cares more about his Political career than he does about CWU members.
76% voted for a strike Billy and you call it a huge majority, yet 98% vote to stop donating to Labour and you refuse point blank to talk about it?
We are in for a complete shafting, look forward to a crap 2 or 3 year pay deal and as much sh*t as RM can pile onto your back.
OnAFlyer wrote:Billy Hayes is a hopeless public speaker and should not be doing any interviews. He mumbles and can only remember one thing per interview so repeats it again and again.
'It takes two to tango, it takes two to tango, it takes two to tango'
'Acas Acas Acas'
And the part where the interviewer asked if the CWU would stop donations to Labour as 98% of the membes voted for it was painful. He clearly cares more about his Political career than he does about CWU members.
76% voted for a strike Billy and you call it a huge majority, yet 98% vote to stop donating to Labour and you refuse point blank to talk about it?
We are in for a complete shafting, look forward to a crap 2 or 3 year pay deal and as much sh*t as RM can pile onto your back.
100 % agree with you mate....i saw the interview and it was woeful, repeating him self all the time with no real stubstance to his argument, he ended up just looking like the barstard son of bagpuss !
another in along line of rubbish performances. Don't they send them for lessons on media stuff? That Bob Gibson did a brilliant job with the pegasus walk speed thing; why not put him up? Hayes should have batted the labour party question into the long grass for after the dispute, instead he finished even worse than he began. A wonderful opportunity ruined.
Spock: "Jim, there is an historic opportunity here."
Kirk: "Don't believe them! Don't trust them!"
Spock: "They're dying."
Kirk: "Let them die."
OnAFlyer wrote:Billy Hayes is a hopeless public speaker and should not be doing any interviews. He mumbles and can only remember one thing per interview so repeats it again and again.
'It takes two to tango, it takes two to tango, it takes two to tango'
'Acas Acas Acas'
And the part where the interviewer asked if the CWU would stop donations to Labour as 98% of the membes voted for it was painful. He clearly cares more about his Political career than he does about CWU members.
76% voted for a strike Billy and you call it a huge majority, yet 98% vote to stop donating to Labour and you refuse point blank to talk about it?
We are in for a complete shafting, look forward to a crap 2 or 3 year pay deal and as much sh*t as RM can pile onto your back.
Spot on xcept the 2 or 3 year pay deal cos I dont think we will get a pay rise in 2010 either. Wit till GB says GET BACK TO WORK again like he did last time and suddenly the CWU will spirng into action and reccomend another blin din deal Rodders!
I got all the way to the last post and knew what i was going to write then the post by stephen500 threw a spanner in the works!
Did Billy Hayes negotiate the 2007 pay and modernisation deal? I presume he would of been the chief negotiator and if thats the case, based on that he is a shocking negotiator! We went out and came back with a worse deal than we started with didnt we?
I think that his performance wasent great but anyone who thought for five minutes that he is in this for us is very much deluded, he is in it for one person only. I think he is trying to flex his muscle to get high up in politics, look how strong and powerful i am sort of thing.
I do think that the cwu are looking particulary weak and i would love to know why the public arent being told the truth, do the union even know whats happening in london and scotland?????
acas acas acas it takes two to tango it takes two to tango it takes two to tango blah blah blah
shimmyrule wrote:This is the thing i cant understand, Mandleson and all his dodgy previous misdemeanours, his love of all things european, the part privatisation of the business, the loss of jobs, the downsizing of royal mail, the "unfair" competition we have to deal with,this rubbish called modernisation, and still, people on here vote labour, the very people who want you out of a job.
I really cannot fathom it.
Well I'm not only a Labour voter but a Labour member and I do think this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Labour will shift right or left depending on pressure from below. Always have done. The labour movement in Britain has suffered huge defeats over the years that has allowed both right-wingers in the unions and then the Labour Party to shift the party in the direction they wanted. That process can work in reverse and may well do so in the coming period. The issue is rebuilding class consciousness and we need to stay and fight to rebuild that in our traditional organisations. If your house was being overrun by rats, what would you do? Would you leave and let the rats have the run of the house or would do everything in your power to get rid of them?
You must understand that I am here purely as A BEARER OF MESSAGES.
http://php.l-r-c.org.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. take a look at this, they are a pressure group within the labour party who can hopefully return the labour party back to its working class roots.
"why should it just be the bankers, politicians and the idle rich who get all the best things ? we demand a standard of living for our members that enables them to share in the fine wines and times that the likes of Cameron and his Eton buddies take for granted " - the late great Bob Crow RIP.
Harry_Perkins wrote:
Well I'm not only a Labour voter but a Labour member and I do think this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Labour will shift right or left depending on pressure from below. Always have done. The labour movement in Britain has suffered huge defeats over the years that has allowed both right-wingers in the unions and then the Labour Party to shift the party in the direction they wanted. That process can work in reverse and may well do so in the coming period. The issue is rebuilding class consciousness and we need to stay and fight to rebuild that in our traditional organisations. If your house was being overrun by rats, what would you do? Would you leave and let the rats have the run of the house or would do everything in your power to get rid of them?
Trouble is Labour give the Rats the best food off the Table, allowing them to have huge nests, yet still complaining to the council about them. Then when the rat catcher comes round, he will only talk to the bosses, complains when the rat catcher asks for better tools and fair conditions, and secretly connives with the Rats and council to put him in a bad light and then complains when he does not kill enough rats. Or even worse writes to the local newspaper and says how terrible the Rat catcher is killing rats and leaving orphan rats to die of starvation. There is only so much that the Rat Catcher can take before he turns round and lumps the householder.
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Harry_Perkins wrote:
Well I'm not only a Labour voter but a Labour member and I do think this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Labour will shift right or left depending on pressure from below. Always have done. The labour movement in Britain has suffered huge defeats over the years that has allowed both right-wingers in the unions and then the Labour Party to shift the party in the direction they wanted. That process can work in reverse and may well do so in the coming period. The issue is rebuilding class consciousness and we need to stay and fight to rebuild that in our traditional organisations. If your house was being overrun by rats, what would you do? Would you leave and let the rats have the run of the house or would do everything in your power to get rid of them?
Trouble is Labour give the Rats the best food off the Table, allowing them to have huge nests, yet still complaining to the council about them. Then when the rat catcher comes round, he will only talk to the bosses, complains when the rat catcher asks for better tools and fair conditions, and secretly connives with the Rats and council to put him in a bad light and then complains when he does not kill enough rats. Or even worse writes to the local newspaper and says how terrible the Rat catcher is killing rats and leaving orphan rats to die of starvation. There is only so much that the Rat Catcher can take before he turns round and lumps the householder.
Excellent analogy / analogies for New Labour - Tony Blair - " My reforms will only be complete when people learn to love Peter Mandelson " WTF !
Harry_Perkins wrote:
Well I'm not only a Labour voter but a Labour member and I do think this is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Labour will shift right or left depending on pressure from below. Always have done. The labour movement in Britain has suffered huge defeats over the years that has allowed both right-wingers in the unions and then the Labour Party to shift the party in the direction they wanted. That process can work in reverse and may well do so in the coming period. The issue is rebuilding class consciousness and we need to stay and fight to rebuild that in our traditional organisations. If your house was being overrun by rats, what would you do? Would you leave and let the rats have the run of the house or would do everything in your power to get rid of them?
Trouble is Labour give the Rats the best food off the Table, allowing them to have huge nests, yet still complaining to the council about them. Then when the rat catcher comes round, he will only talk to the bosses, complains when the rat catcher asks for better tools and fair conditions, and secretly connives with the Rats and council to put him in a bad light and then complains when he does not kill enough rats. Or even worse writes to the local newspaper and says how terrible the Rat catcher is killing rats and leaving orphan rats to die of starvation. There is only so much that the Rat Catcher can take before he turns round and lumps the householder.
Which Labour though? John McDonnell has vastly different politics to Alan Johnson. Look at the party breakdown of all the EDM motions in parliament supporting us and those who were voting against privatisation (which probably partly contributed more to the fact that the plan was shelved than the likes of Mandelson care to admit!). They are nearly all Labour MPs. This was the key one, EDM 428: http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetai ... ESSION=899
That this House notes that the Labour Party Conference 2008, with the backing of Ministers, supported a vision of a wholly publicly-owned, integrated Royal Mail Group; welcomes the conclusion of the Hooper Report that the current universal service obligation offered by Royal Mail, including six days a week delivery, must be protected and that the primary duty of a new regulator should be to maintain it; further welcomes the recommendations in the Report that the Government should take responsibility for the pensions deficit which followed an extended contributions holiday; endorses the call for a new relationship between management and postal unions and welcomes the commitment of the Communication Workers Union to negotiate an agreement which would support the modernisation of the industry; observes that in 2007 the Government agreed to a £1.2 billion loan facility on commercial terms to modernise Royal Mail operations; rejects the recommendation of the Hooper Report to sell a minority stake in Royal Mail which would risk fracturing one of Britain's greatest public services; further notes that the Government is currently advertising for a new Chair of Royal Mail; and urges the Secretary of State to appoint a Chair and management team who are committed to the principles of a modern public enterprise.
Main party breakdown of those supporting this EDM: 2 Conservative, 3 Lib-Dems and 147 Labour!
The rats are the right of the party and the careerists. They've always been there and it has always been well understood that they are just the Tories shadows. How successful they are and how far they can push the party right at any particular time is a question of the pressures that have been brought to bear on labour movement. Naturally, this pressure has been severe over the last 25-30 years. Class struggle has been low and class conscious has decreased. We have to rebuild this because otherwise not voting Labour, unions disaffiliationing etc, will change nothing and might end up doing more harm than good.
You must understand that I am here purely as A BEARER OF MESSAGES.
I'll base my judgement on the weight of comment
