How Royal Mail fiddles the figures

[Phantom]

I personally believe that volumes are down, but admit to not working in RM anymore.

As said before even if for argument's sake volumes were not down then revenues are down. You see ultimately it doesn't matter if volumes are the same if the money hasn't come in to pay for them or that companies have found cheaper options, e.g. convert from 1st/2nd class to Mailsort or going to DSA or from 1st class to 2nd class etc. then less revenue per item delivered comes through the door.

As with all these things RM can then still create a story around the financials (within the accounting rules).

So one man's truth is another man's lies/half-truths or difference of opinion

No-one actually knows what the volumes are. The volumes counted at one end of the RM pipeline never match the ones at the other end. Unless every item was tagged on entrance into RM it is almost impossible or too expensive.

On top of this there is still a revenue gap in terms of getting all the invoices paid for the letters than come in

F0zz

i agree with certain points you make, but mail volumes are not down, 100 mailsort items going to 100 DSA items still requires the same handling and delivery time BUT revenues are down! and thats where we have a major problem and it will remain a problem unless RM take a step back from stupid delivery plans that will simply fail to work as have all the other ways of delivering mail have over the years. 1 regular man, 1 walk - it works, its been working for many many years, leave it alone!

[axeman]

why bother to comment on what he admits himself is pure speculation , conjecture ? knowledge he left behind

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The 1st post in this thread has now received a mention in the Torygraph http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 18&t=19383" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tman]

Anyway,where's TMan

Here, Postie, and I've just had a Eureka Moment.

I've just realised that RM have been able to close and amalgamate various MCs nation-wide simply because someone's managed to stuff more mail into trays than was originally estimated.

The CWU should push for new trays that only hold 50 letters, then the reported volumes would rise by 200%, we'd all be on 12 hour days for evermore, and they'd be opening new MCs everywhere.
Almost Stalinistic in it's brutal illogical simplicity.....

[POSTMAN]

Anyway,where's TMan

Here, Postie, and I've just had a Eureka Moment.

I've just realised that RM have been able to close and amalgamate various MCs nation-wide simply because someone's managed to stuff more mail into trays than was originally estimated.

The CWU should push for new trays that only hold 50 letters, then the reported volumes would rise by 200%, we'd all be on 12 hour days for evermore, and they'd be opening new MCs everywhere.
Almost Stalinistic in it's brutal illogical simplicity.....

That's actually quite funny.

I hated saying that.

[chunk]

I remember when trays held 50 flats
In fact i think they still do!
It was some time around April my friends in processing reported that flats being scanned into the system were
being credited 30 something to a tray and a similar scale of reduction to letters trays.

A query to a manager was brushed aside with the assertion that mail profiles were changing ie more catalogs so fatter mail means less items.
utter drivel!
At the time there was a lot of deliberation going on at Swindon as managers planning for the combined weight of Reading and Oxfords mail were discussing the necessary staff levels.
Underplaying the amount of mail that these mail centers were handling was probably not a good idea .

eureka indeed it makes closing mail centres easier to sell !

[BELIAL]

Anyway,where's TMan

Here, Postie, and I've just had a Eureka Moment.

I've just realised that RM have been able to close and amalgamate various MCs nation-wide simply because someone's managed to stuff more mail into trays than was originally estimated.

The CWU should push for new trays that only hold 50 letters, then the reported volumes would rise by 200%, we'd all be on 12 hour days for evermore, and they'd be opening new MCs everywhere.
Almost Stalinistic in it's brutal illogical simplicity.....

That's actually quite funny.

I hated saying that.

Nah, it's arse backwards .The point is they manage to stuff the same amount or more into trays,but they forget to count half of it. It'll still work for culling MC's though as long as you can farm out PDC mail to DO's for sorting

[F0zziebear]

Forgive me banging on about this but the logic (my logic) that detemines whether I believe volumes are based on this:

Largest RM customers are the banks - The two largest banks were providing hundreds of millions of pounds of revenue and volume per year.

As we have all seen, these banks have almost stopped lending, amalgamated and if you notice they are advertising loans etc. far less

Utilities, Telecoms and large retail are an important sector: Anyone noticed their bills are going online? Oh and a recession and budge to spend on advertising has and will go down

Oh and don't forget the public sector: If you think those volumes will be maintained whilst we pay down the hundreds of billions in money we have created, well then...

Now according to RM that has already amounted to 10% drop on average per day between 08 and 09.

As said before no-one knows exactly what the volumes are, but revenues in by product can be converted into volumes and also the postal preference survey is a good indicator as well (though the two will never completely match). Then there is the volume counting done in the operation itself.

However, I am not on the frontline doing one delivery round or working in one delivery depot. Having said that it seems no-one who is an active member and worker on here agrees volumes have gone down, which is at least a compelling argument.

If you can pick apart my argument above then please do.

[OnAFlyer]

Personally I believe the amount of letters IS actually down from 2-3 years ago (but still miles up from when I started 12 years ago). It's the amount of thick letters, magazines and packets etc that has significantly grown, meaning the weight and bulk of the average delivery is now higher than ever. It seems like there are bulk postings of magazines every day now instead of once in a blue moon.

I did a delivery yesterday that was the first one I did 12 years ago, I used to have 2 bags a day and 1 on a Saturday - yesterday I had 6 bags.

[bitchface]

after reading the diary of a postman i decided to go in and count the first tray of mail i had.not pick and choose ,just the very first.it had 285 letters of all thicknesses in it.thats nearly twice what its recorded at

[floydy]

The bags dont lie


I started 12 years back 3-4 bags on heavy day....

Now 9-10 bags on a sky week

[Big Daz]

Personally I believe the amount of letters IS actually down from 2-3 years ago (but still miles up from when I started 12 years ago). It's the amount of thick letters, magazines and packets etc that has significantly grown, meaning the weight and bulk of the average delivery is now higher than ever. It seems like there are bulk postings of magazines every day now instead of once in a blue moon.

I did a delivery yesterday that was the first one I did 12 years ago, I used to have 2 bags a day and 1 on a Saturday - yesterday I had 6 bags.

Very good point

I would say there has been a small drop in mail on my delivery which is the cadet round i did in 1991 reincarnated but it is still well up on on 1991 levels!!!

[dvbuk55]

There may or not be a fall in mail in general but for sure there has been an increase in special delivery items. A very few years ago 70 - 80 was an average day and it is now closer to 300 a day, in addition to which there is now the tracked items which in our office is averaging around 50 a day. I don't know about other offices but twenty years ago there was about 70 in my DO there is now 150 and that figure is still rising, the delivery span has risen from about 2.45 mins to 3.5 hours and 4 hrs 15 on park and loop. Rural deliveries are longer and harder than they have ever been. If the mail volume is falling then why do we require more and more people to sort when we used to have teams cutting and tipping which doesn't happen now.

Whether there is a fall in mail volumes or not the work has become harder and more stressful and that is a fact.

[Tman]

However, I am not on the frontline doing one delivery round or working in one delivery depot. Having said that it seems no-one who is an active member and worker on here agrees volumes have gone down, which is at least a compelling argument.

No, the general consensus on here seems to be that the bags are just as heavy/heavier and the job is just as hard for a variety of reasons, and from that is extrapolated that RM is lying in it's claim.

Bit like the BMW Mini transporter driver denying there's been a drop off in Mini sales as he's still driving down to the docks every day just the same.

If you can pick apart my argument above then please do.

Make sense to me. You could have added that postal administrations world-wide have also reported large reductions in mail. Perhaps they're all in on RM's Grand Conspiracy too....

[dropbag_clone]

.it had 285 letters of all thicknesses in it.thats nearly twice what its recorded at

He he... I did a count too (on thursday morning) the box I counted had 340 + items in it.