Everyone Should Read This:Phase 3

[norbert]

I think onaflyer should change his name.

Perhaps onanotherplanet, onamphetamines, onawindup ?

ps. love this bit - 'If anyone thinks their walk is too long they could have it tested, however should they do the job exactly by the book when tested then they should be watched after that to see if they do it every day'.

some of the identities / user names , the story they have on that site are " interesting " .

[OnAFlyer]

I think onaflyer should change his name.

Perhaps onanotherplanet, onamphetamines, onawindup ?

ps. love this bit - 'If anyone thinks their walk is too long they could have it tested, however should they do the job exactly by the book when tested then they should be watched after that to see if they do it every day'.

What do you find funny about it? When tested you should do the job exactly as per RM rules, than after that you do it differently?

[S6 Stroller]

"some poor walking man had to take 2 golf clubs the other day cos they went through the template"".

The item has to pass through the templete every way, so he would not have taken 2 golf clubs so is a correct estimation of this persons veracity.

What is this mythical template? Never seen one of those. Packets are left for the postie and driver to argue about at our place.

[POSTMAN]

"some poor walking man had to take 2 golf clubs the other day cos they went through the template"".

The item has to pass through the templete every way, so he would not have taken 2 golf clubs so is a correct estimation of this persons veracity.

What is this mythical template? Never seen one of those. Packets are left for the postie and driver to argue about at our place.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =1&t=17599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[S6 Stroller]

"some poor walking man had to take 2 golf clubs the other day cos they went through the template"".

The item has to pass through the templete every way, so he would not have taken 2 golf clubs so is a correct estimation of this persons veracity.

What is this mythical template? Never seen one of those. Packets are left for the postie and driver to argue about at our place.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =1&t=17599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers mate. I can see why I've never seen one of those at our place now. I'm gonna ask my LM about it tomorrow. I bet he doesn't know what I'm talking about

[pete the ex-postie]

1-First of all, don't panic
2 - MAKE SURE THAT YOU GET SOMEONE TO WITNESS THE WHOLE CONVERSATION, ITS YOUR LEGAL RIGHT
3 - DON'T REFUSE a reasonable request - However I you feel that your LM request is unreasonable register this both in writing and oral dissagreement . BUT Agree with the manager that you are happy to absorb extra work IF YOU HAVE THE TIME TO DO SO
4 - If you genuinly can't absorb extra work and he / she insist that you can then you can accept the extra work under protest and threat of sanction ( make sure that this protest with threat of sanction is in writing by keeping a diary of these events , ask your LM to counter sign it; if he/she refuses to sign, note this too ! )
5 - take out the extra workload on delivery if forced to under threat of sanction/ duress by your LM
6 -While on delivery, If it is clear that you genuinly cant complete your duty and extra workload CALL THE OFFICE about 20mins. before your turn around time and seek a managers advice on what you should now do.
7 - If your LM suggests that you are swinging the lead then suggest that he comes out with you to test the duty (if your following RM delivery rules to the letter, then I would suggest that you wouldn't even get around your normal duty in the alloted duty time - REMEMBER always lock your cycle or van every time you leave it , dont read your mail as you walk, look at the next address then walk there then read each address before you post them through. p719 everything that cant be delivered as the rules dictate. knock and wait 2 mins before writing a p719 etc. etc. etc. - ask on these forums for all the rules )
8 - Register a complaint if YOU FEEL that you are being unreasonably harrassed by the management team - (REMENBER HARASSMENT IS ANY ACTION THAT YOU FIND OFFENCIVE E.G. if You feel that someone is accusing you of lieing and you are being truthfull you MAY feel that your being harassed and bullied by these actions ) / call employee support ( HELP )Report your harassment/bullying and record the time / date you did this.
9 - If RM's action is causing you genuine stress, seek help from your GP, take time off to recover if needed

REMEMBER , always keep a written / oral recording of all events and if your forced to sign any letter by threat of sanction then add the words "signed under duress" and "without prejustice" at the top

PS if anyone can add / ammend this post to the good , then please do.

I think I'll do all you suggest (in particular, point 7) from now on. Like most postmen I read the addresses as I walk - in fact it was once the main contributing reason for breaking an ankle five years ago (the time off work for that being used against me in a Stage 3 interview - my first and only - earlier this year). Obviously I, like so many others, am not helping myself by doing things during my round which help me to finish earlier but ultimately count against me, so it's time I started doing it how I'm told to by RM themselves!

On another RM point, can I ask as many people as possible to join my Facebook cause 'Boycott eBay sellers who don't use Royal Mail'? http://apps.facebook.com/causes/349804/ ... m=95ac708a for regardless of RM's tactics I still prefer a cheaper, faster service than some of these slow, expensive couriers that a lot of the Power Sellers use, and I also don't want to help the REAL oposition from threatening my job!

[OnAFlyer]

"some poor walking man had to take 2 golf clubs the other day cos they went through the template"".

The item has to pass through the templete every way, so he would not have taken 2 golf clubs so is a correct estimation of this persons veracity.

What is this mythical template? Never seen one of those. Packets are left for the postie and driver to argue about at our place.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =1&t=17599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers mate. I can see why I've never seen one of those at our place now. I'm gonna ask my LM about it tomorrow. I bet he doesn't know what I'm talking about

Those templates are ridiculous, we had one in our office and it soon got binned. The packets you're expected to take when using that are crazy.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

"some poor walking man had to take 2 golf clubs the other day cos they went through the template"".

The item has to pass through the templete every way, so he would not have taken 2 golf clubs so is a correct estimation of this persons veracity.

What is this mythical template? Never seen one of those. Packets are left for the postie and driver to argue about at our place.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... =1&t=17599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cheers mate. I can see why I've never seen one of those at our place now. I'm gonna ask my LM about it tomorrow. I bet he doesn't know what I'm talking about

Those templates are ridiculous, we had one in our office and it soon got binned. The packets you're expected to take when using that are crazy.

I admit they are as I will take ones that wont fit through the template but fit in my bag - and others that are too bulky for pouch bag but go through the template easily. I think if you are using them common sense has to be the biggest factor.

The way I understand it should be used is that the longest part of the packets should be measured against the longest axis on the template, and the shortest on the shortest - if neither fit or only 1 side then (after applying common sense) it should be passed to the driver.

[russell1973]

For those of you, who haven't seen this on PMC. Here are the Posts that I was referring to:
Originally Posted by [other Member name removed]
Well doing nothing is not an option...the laws of the free market economy will have its way...that is the company will knock up a huge loss if current trends continue. Then you will see job losses by the truck load..No one is going to bail us out..Mandy and the EEC will see to that.

Keywords..shipbuilding , coal ,steel, British leyland
[End of quote]

Yet still people don't look at it that way, and think the way to protect jobs is to refuse to do any extra work as often as possible, so that we all do the job properly and RM goes away and doesn't make any cuts.

Rubbish.

You only have to read the posts from members on here who seem to revel in saying 'no' when asked to do a bit of collapsing, to know that. Yet it's people like me, who do extra without complaint who are being blamed for costing jobs and causing cuts?
managers talk.....
People are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think that 'doing the job properly' is going to make RM go away and not ask for savings.


I have no problem with posties that work that way, but I know from watching some people in my office that there's a very fine line between doing the job properly and being deliberately obstructive (slow timing) A guy in my office making a 2hr walk last 3.5hrs for a start!

There seems to be a huge 'them and us' mentality between posties and RM management, with the CWU constantly citing managers bonuses in their literature. My opinion is 'so what'. So what if managers get big bonuses, they get a LOT more hassle and are under a lot more pressure than us.

If you really want the bonuses then go on the management scheme, go into further educaton etc and try and be one yourself. Why be jealous of what someone else is earning (because that's what it is).

Like it or not, we all work for the same company, and RM pays our wages and mortgages. We are not paid pennies, we are paid a good wage for what we do. We all need to get our heads down and work or we won't have a job to 'do properly'.

One last thing - do you think there are people out there who don't have a job, who would be willing to work harder than most posties, for less money? In what other industries is it deemed acceptable to be slow at your job yet not lose it or even get any warnings?

The answer to that is pretty obvious.

Originally Posted by andy2007
Before we go any further, I think it's important to make some distinctions here. Between those who previously used their own vehicles, did free overtime (some both before AND after their Shift). Those who continue to use their own cars, and do free overtime. And those who are being deliberately obstructive.

The first group, are often seen as being deliberately obstructive. Because they've changed their way of working, because more work was given to them.

The second group (I assume from your post, that this includes you), who're often blamed for the cuts. Because they make it possible to do more work, with less Duties.

The third group, tend to be put under emense pressure to start using their cars, and doing free overtime for free.
[End of quote]

I think you are confusing the words 'overtime' and 'extra work'. Overtime takes you over your time, if it doesn't then it's not overtime, it's work done within the 40hrs you get paid for.

So please don't carry on spouting rubbish that I am doing free overtime when i'm doing nothing of the sort, and neither is anyone else that I know of in my office.

I remember the days of doing lots of overtime and still getting done within my normal hours - those days have gone and people need to realise it.

If I don't use my car I can still collapse most days and make time. That's not running, just working hard to get the job done. I haven't got an easy delivery, when I picked my duty I was 60th out of 100-odd to pick, also the Pegasus review we had said it was up to length.

Virtually every other walk in my office is the same, most can collapse several times a week and still get done within time. I'm assuming my office isn't a one off, unless mysteriously we all have easy walks which Pegasus says are up to length.

People keep saying they are doing the job by the book, but when did that start? How many people who used to get finished early now purposely make sure their walk lasts longer so they don't have to do any extra?

[kester]

Can I jump in with a suggestion here?

As a now former employee of Royal Mail (had a mental breakdown, got dismissed), can I suggest that every office clubs together to get a digital voice recorder, preferably one that can connect to a PC for downloading files, and every time an employee gets called in, they take the voice recorder in, advising the manager that the conversation will be recorded.

If they're going to threaten you, then make sure you have recorded evidence.

[andy2007]

I don't think it's admissable, if they don't know they're being recorded. Although I could be wrong.

[Geezer]

I don't think it's admissable, if they don't know they're being recorded. Although I could be wrong.

Then every time they want to talk to you just get a recorder out and tell them you are going to record it for future reference.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Got this from a legal/law message board

http://www.legalbanter.co.uk/uk-legal-m ... tings.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tape Recording of meetings
In article ,
Uncertain wrote:

It stated that formal and informal HR meetings may not be tape
recorded by either side. It went on to say that, even if a tape
recording was made, it would not be useable as evidence of what was
said!

I would advise anyone faced with such a policy to ignore it. Make the
recordings covertly. The Employment Tribunal will accept them in
evidence, regardless. If the employer are likely to retaliate if the
employee does say that they've been recording the internal meetings,
I would probably avoid revealing the existence of the recordings until
ET proceedings have been started.

See [2006] UKEAT 0243_06_1509 in which the EAT clearly held that a
clandestine recording of a disciplinary hearing was legal and
furthermore admissible in evidence to the ET. The EAT conducted a
thorough review of each of the tenous grounds advanced by the
employers for excluding it and rejects them all. [1]

The only point that the employee lost on, in that case, was the
admissibility of their recording of the private deliberations of the
disciplinary hearing panel - that is, the recording made by the
employee keeping the covert recorder running while the employee was
asked to leave the room to allow the panel to deliberate. And there
was an adverse order regarding some wasted costs because of a
procedural error: the employee didn't disclose the existence of the
employee at an early enough point in the proceedings.


These kind of policies are far from rare. Cambridge University do the
same thing. Here's a quote from their grievance policy[2]:

Formal hearings and informal meetings under the University's
disciplinary, grievance and appeal procedures cannot be
tape-recorded by either side and therefore will not be admissible
as evidence even where a recording exists. A note-taker may be
present at hearings to provide a formal record of the
meeting. This will not be a verbatim record but will be made
available for both parties to review and agree. This approach has
been adopted to maintain the formality of proceedings and to
minimise disruption."

[1] http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKEAT...3_06_1509.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[2] http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/offices/hr/policy/grievance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PrivatemailUK]

How about you all actually get on with your jobs? You are a real shower of lazy, uneducated, slow, liars, inadequate bunch of people.

PRIVATISE THE ROYAL MAIL. REMOVE THE UNIONS. GIVE THE BRITISH PUBLIC A REAL SERVICE.

[DGP1]

How about you all actually get on with your jobs? You are a real shower of lazy, uneducated, slow, liars, inadequate bunch of people.

PRIVATISE THE ROYAL MAIL. REMOVE THE UNIONS. GIVE THE BRITISH PUBLIC A REAL SERVICE.

You're going the right way to get banned