IMPORTANT:Time to fight and not give in

[Big Daz]

What happens if a DOM proposes some absorption that is doable within duty time ? Does the rep in the current climate say yes as what is being proposed is within the letter and the spirit of phase 3 or does he/she say no Im not allowed to agree to any savings.

Have reps been told to withdraw from phase 3 by HQ or just dont agree to savings and whats the difference?

[POSTMAN]

What happens if a DOM proposes some absorption that is doable within duty time ? Does the rep in the current climate say yes as what is being proposed is within the letter and the spirit of phase 3 or does he/she say no Im not allowed to agree to any savings.

Have reps been told to withdraw from phase 3 by HQ or just dont agree to savings and whats the difference?

In London it's being done by EA,hence the letters they have drafted,which as you probably know is in the global announcement,'Everyone should read this Phase 3'

[dvbuk55]

What happens if a DOM proposes some absorption that is doable within duty time ? Does the rep in the current climate say yes as what is being proposed is within the letter and the spirit of phase 3 or does he/she say no Im not allowed to agree to any savings.

Have reps been told to withdraw from phase 3 by HQ or just dont agree to savings and whats the difference?

As I understand it, only the indoor element of summer lapsing was agreed and not the outdoor element. If any outdoor work is "doable" within the 3.5 hour delivery span, which is the only one agreed, then what about the time from point A to point B of the lapsed element together with the journey time, which if it is possible to do within 3.5 hours then the deliveries are questionable to begin with and should have been rectified when pegasus was introduced.

Lets face facts, delivery offices were shafted with this, which hasn't impacted on any other facet of the workforce. It should have been dismissed out of hand not least of all because the park and loop deliveries are now 4hrs &15mins and still have summer lapsing inflicted on them. There is probably a greater disparity on duty spans now than at any other time whilst I have been with RM. Still some wag is going to say "well you voted for it", when in fact it was foisted on us.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

This is a completely unwinnable fight.

The sooner people accept this the better

Don't agree with that, but then I know what I will be striking for.

You just go and ask the average man on the street if it is that outrageous that if I get paid 40 hour a week I should expected to work somewhere vaguely near 40 hours.

- No argument there - If they pay me for 40 hrs I have no problem in working 40 hours - If they want me to work more then I should have the choice and they should pay me OT if they agree - too many times they refuse to pay OT for various reasons. I must add this has never happened to me but it has happened in my office.

Last week I noted my hours. I worked 37 hours. I got paid for 54.2 hours, I worked my day off and did 2 half deliveries OT. (BTW I have far from the easiest walk in my office)

I worked 44 hours and got paid 44 hours last week - no ghost overtime at my place its all gone - your lucky to be still getting it.

I don't rush around like a maniac, I take my breaks. I don't come in early, I don't skive off sorting.

Nor do I.

The solution is simple - do the absorption if you have time, if you don't, then take it out and bring it back.

Agree totally - however not everyone is confident enough to stand up to Managers when their ability to do the job is questioned, or OT earned is not paid. Thats why we need agreements, to help protect those that feel unable to do it themselves.

Royal Mail is not some lazy government funded skive anymore, if you don't like it get out - but even with all the new rules you will still not find a job even remotely easy for as much pay anywhere else.

Management speak that I am heartily getting fed up with. There is a recession/depression on and people cannot afford to just quit and sometime unscrupulous Managers rely on this.

Welcome BTW Tlotoxl I hope you like the site and hopefully with a quick read through you'll find out the reasons why some (probably most) are willing to strike, but the reasons quoted above are not them.

[Tlotoxl]

Royal Mail is not some lazy government funded skive anymore, if you don't like it get out - but even with all the new rules you will still not find a job even remotely easy for as much pay anywhere else.

Management speak that I am heartily getting fed up with. There is a recession/depression on and people cannot afford to just quit and sometime unscrupulous Managers rely on this.

This is absolutly nothing to do with Reccesion. I have worked in quite a few large and small jobs before I started at royal Mail - I got told off in a previous job for standing at the clocking in machine 90 seconds before the end of my shift, I got an official warning when I did it a second time weeks later.

In another job I was told in no uncertain terms that if you were more than 4 minutes late you would lose an hours pay - this was common practice even 20 years ago.

I worked for a long time as a reserve in many different offices and the laxness is incredible, people just roll in whenever they feel like it, if you get caught not sorting you get moaned at, 200 times later any difference? no. there is no incentive to work hard because you everybody else being incredibly lazy and not just getting away with it but in some cases even have parts of their delivery route shortened!!

There is one guy in my office, comes in at least 20 minutes late every day, is finish prepping before everybody else, buggers off before the office is declared clear and finishes at the latest by midday (and frequently much earlier) every day and has for years - and he is paid to 2.30pm.

A driver lives and works on my route comes home for lunch every day.... for 3 hours.

Other drivers get 2 hours guarenteed overtime every day for a job that takes at most 15 minutes and they still finish before their time.

When I see this happening all around me you can understand that stiking because we are being treated so badly seems a little idiotic especially when you can just cut off if you will go over your time. ROTFLMAO!!!!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Royal Mail is not some lazy government funded skive anymore, if you don't like it get out - but even with all the new rules you will still not find a job even remotely easy for as much pay anywhere else.

Management speak that I am heartily getting fed up with. There is a recession/depression on and people cannot afford to just quit and sometime unscrupulous Managers rely on this.

This is absolutly nothing to do with Reccesion. I have worked in quite a few large and small jobs before I started at royal Mail - I got told off in a previous job for standing at the clocking in machine 90 seconds before the end of my shift, I got an official warning when I did it a second time weeks later.

In another job I was told in no uncertain terms that if you were more than 4 minutes late you would lose an hours pay - this was common practice even 20 years ago.

I worked for a long time as a reserve in many different offices and the laxness is incredible, people just roll in whenever they feel like it, if you get caught not sorting you get moaned at, 200 times later any difference? no. there is no incentive to work hard because you everybody else being incredibly lazy and not just getting away with it but in some cases even have parts of their delivery route shortened!!

There is one guy in my office, comes in at least 20 minutes late every day, is finish prepping before everybody else, buggers off before the office is declared clear and finishes at the latest by midday (and frequently much earlier) every day and has for years - and he is paid to 2.30pm.

A driver lives and works on my route comes home for lunch every day.... for 3 hours.

Other drivers get 2 hours guarenteed overtime every day for a job that takes at most 15 minutes and they still finish before their time.

When I see this happening all around me you can understand that stiking because we are being treated so badly seems a little idiotic especially when you can just cut off if you will go over your time. ROTFLMAO!!!!

Everything you listed may be happening in your Office or Area and I can't comment on that, but I am sure its not happening in mine, in fact the opposite. Worked OT not being paid (not ghost overtime), people being coded for cutting off. People being put on wilful delay charges for cutting off. Lapsing being brought in, or at least they are trying, when the wont provide transport to the lapsed round.

Nothing to do with recession - it is if managers say "Leave if you don't like the changes because they will happen"

[Big Daz]

What happens if a DOM proposes some absorption that is doable within duty time ? Does the rep in the current climate say yes as what is being proposed is within the letter and the spirit of phase 3 or does he/she say no Im not allowed to agree to any savings.

Have reps been told to withdraw from phase 3 by HQ or just dont agree to savings and whats the difference?

As I understand it, only the indoor element of summer lapsing was agreed and not the outdoor element.

+

Summer lapsing is not what's happening though It's RMl implementing phase 3 full on. Phase 3 is not limited to any paticular time of year and phase 3 does not hold any real benefits such as more leave slots.


Phase 3 can be outdoor work


To jointly identify/implement genuine opportunities to absorb outdoor and/or indoor workload where time exists within approved attendance times/normal paid work hours.

[kello22]

I wish my office was like tlotoxis,thats some going working 37 hours and getting paid 52,something that is not possible in mine.More like getting paid 52 and doing 55 hours,getting forced to do lapsings isnt good,men and women are getting sick of getting told,we'll take u down the conduct code if u cant do it,then when u are late by doing it,they go mad when u claim it.U cant win.

[steven100]

In the office that i work, 2 van etc has already been implemented. This was done from what i understand bully tactics. Plus they had 2 ballots (not confirmed) in 48 hrs to implement the changes.
Hunch is the same will happen across the board, threatened with part-time .........

Look forward to the changes, its bad, its heading your way. Just hope your office is strong.

[axeman]

Royal Mail is not some lazy government funded skive anymore, if you don't like it get out - but even with all the new rules you will still not find a job even remotely easy for as much pay anywhere else.

Management speak that I am heartily getting fed up with. There is a recession/depression on and people cannot afford to just quit and sometime unscrupulous Managers rely on this.

This is absolutly nothing to do with Reccesion. I have worked in quite a few large and small jobs before I started at royal Mail - I got told off in a previous job for standing at the clocking in machine 90 seconds before the end of my shift, I got an official warning when I did it a second time weeks later.

In another job I was told in no uncertain terms that if you were more than 4 minutes late you would lose an hours pay - this was common practice even 20 years ago.

I worked for a long time as a reserve in many different offices and the laxness is incredible, people just roll in whenever they feel like it, if you get caught not sorting you get moaned at, 200 times later any difference? no. there is no incentive to work hard because you everybody else being incredibly lazy and not just getting away with it but in some cases even have parts of their delivery route shortened!!

There is one guy in my office, comes in at least 20 minutes late every day, is finish prepping before everybody else, buggers off before the office is declared clear and finishes at the latest by midday (and frequently much earlier) every day and has for years - and he is paid to 2.30pm.

A driver lives and works on my route comes home for lunch every day.... for 3 hours.

Other drivers get 2 hours guarenteed overtime every day for a job that takes at most 15 minutes and they still finish before their time.

When I see this happening all around me you can understand that stiking because we are being treated so badly seems a little idiotic especially when you can just cut off if you will go over your time. ROTFLMAO!!!!

A clear indicator of what the belief is on the dark side (or should i say what is fed to them at conference calls) ........management speak

[uprising95]

The CWU`s national policy is that no savings or revisons should be agreed this mean `s all office must not agree any geo route /peagsus or indeed 2 men in a van

i don't fully understand what's going off if im honest
i will read up more onit
im just curious about what would happen to the offices that have had the geo route all ready in place with van share and massive walks if the union wins.
would the office be re done or stay as it is ?
im confused

[kello22]

Hope it reverts back to 3 and half hours walks,my office got badly advised and we are know doing van sharing 4 and half duties,Having done them for over a month,every day we are knackered.Some men and women are working upto a couple hours over their time most days,some work their hours(get the normal hassle from dom)

Trust me you dont want to do what my office is doing,i dont get how we got advised to bring this in,im always supporting the strikes and fully back the cwu..Alot of people in my office feel like we are worse than the people who work during the strikes.

We need a yes vote.i know i will vote yes :cfo

[antcpfc]

This is absolutly nothing to do with Reccesion. I have worked in quite a few large and small jobs before I started at royal Mail - I got told off in a previous job for standing at the clocking in machine 90 seconds before the end of my shift, I got an official warning when I did it a second time weeks later.

In another job I was told in no uncertain terms that if you were more than 4 minutes late you would lose an hours pay - this was common practice even 20 years ago.

Why is it people like you want to bring our conditions down to the lowest common denominator?Just because others have been and are being shafted ,it does not follow that we should follow.Maybe they should grow some! I work a 48 hour week to get my one in six off.I go in at six leave at 2 and have never claimed overtime on my duty in 24 years.We used to tear the arse out of the job with no breaks and getting in early etc.because we used to make time .As has been said before the Royal mail think this is their time.Postmen now claim extra which used to be unheard of.We did not start this they did.