STAGE 3

[Pegman]

i find it very disconcerting that a Union agreement with the RMG can overrule the court of human rights, being disciplined for being sick has to be an infringement of them, has no-one ever challenged it that high ?

[Exmailman]

you can blame the posties in the past. For going sick on saturdays and modays after the weekend

[BELIAL]

you can blame the posties in the past. For going sick on saturdays and modays after the weekend

Speak for yourself

[TrueBlueTerrier]

you can blame the posties in the past. For going sick on saturdays and modays after the weekend

What and not an overbearing and aggressive style of management from the top down.

[stokes11eg]

i find it very disconcerting that a Union agreement with the RMG can overrule the court of human rights, being disciplined for being sick has to be an infringement of them, has no-one ever challenged it that high ?

Sadly, illness in the worplace is not really covered by the E.C.H.R's----although some changes are taking place.
Being ill is not a basic human right.However, I believe R/M are drawing a noose around their own neck, with the abysmal way they treat sick people--in many cases causing stress to an alredy sick person---and THAT can be challenged.

[norbert]

you can blame the posties in the past. For going sick on saturdays and modays after the weekend

Speak for yourself

there used to be an appeal after Stage 1 , but then RM wanted to catch out the one's who'd " alcoholic poisoning " but only on saturdays and mondays , and the old soldiers having their extra weeks annual leave .

Eventually they were hoping to get them effectively on probation on a stage 2 as " irregular attendees " or by time they got to a RTU it would transpire there was a " coincidental " pattern to absences . RM when they were " relatively " benign would say they've been given enough rope to hang themselves .

There's been some old soldiers who've timed their extra weeks leave every year then tripped themselves up being genuinely ill and got their P45's.

The obvious problem is that not everyone fits so easily into boxes .

[Suffolkpostie]

MAILMAN, Your condition falls under the remit of the DDA, so any Cluster DOM with any brains would not sack you as you would be in for a certain windfall at any tribunal and RM's name would be dragged through the mud again. My advice is to keep every bit of paperwork, bring a witness into every meeting, and do your homework regarding the DDA and point out all their mistakes at your Stage 3 interview, also make sure notes are taken of your Stage 3 interview and get your points down on paper, that way a tribunal will have noted facts about RM's failure to deal with someone falling under the remit of the DDA....good luck mate!

[norbert]

MAILMAN, Your condition falls under the remit of the DDA, so any Cluster DOM with any brains would not sack you as you would be in for a certain windfall at any tribunal and RM's name would be dragged through the mud again. My advice is to keep every bit of paperwork, bring a witness into every meeting, and do your homework regarding the DDA and point out all their mistakes at your Stage 3 interview, also make sure notes are taken of your Stage 3 interview and get your points down on paper, that way a tribunal will have noted facts about RM's failure to deal with someone falling under the remit of the DDA....good luck mate!

The irony is with that condition , if RM sacked him , The GP & even the Social's Doctors would sign him off but this isn't the way to go , it's to be avoided .

At one time , the Union only did tribunals as a last resort as they dragged the service through the mud . There was some good will , not any more .

[MAILMAN84]

Thanks for the support guys, the whole things sorta kicked my morale a bit

[Theghost]

Good luck with your stage 3,I personally think you will get off with this
Should they decide to give you the sack,Then you go to appeal,While your appeal hearing is being prepared,You should speak to your workmates who have been given leave instead of being marked as sick.This is unfair and at the same time will get your manager a bollocking.
I was given a stage 3 once,I sat down and listened to what had to be said,When i was asked to speak,I simply informed them i had not had a return to work interview each time i was off (True) So how am i to know what the attendance stardards are?
I knew the warning could never be issued,The manager interviewing me knew this too,It was all over within 5 mins and that was that.
Have you had your return to work interviews? So many rules and expectations are made by royal mail that the managers usually miss something and you will get off on a technicality.
Im on the sick at the moment and when i go back i know im going to be issued a stage 1,So im going to go back to work for 1 day and go on the sick the next for another week,This will be taken into account and not change anything,Still get a stage 1 but due to the lack of speed im given another week off.
Im 17 years down the line and the sick system they have is so easy to exploit,Used to be a model postman but the way they treat us now i basically think f**k you royal mail,Im looking after myself and working the system.
The boss hates me but can do nothing,Work to rule,Put fleas in the new boys ears telling them how to do things right,Nothing the bosses can do.
Im a human,Not a f***ing robot,They shove rules and regs down our throat all the time,So i do the same and work to rule.
The job i loved has been ruined by the fat cats and i HATE fat cats.
Anyway im waffling,Good luck but i dont think you need it.

[norbert]

Good luck with your stage 3,I personally think you will get off with this
Should they decide to give you the sack,Then you go to appeal,While your appeal hearing is being prepared,You should speak to your workmates who have been given leave instead of being marked as sick.This is unfair and at the same time will get your manager a bollocking.
I was given a stage 3 once,I sat down and listened to what had to be said,When i was asked to speak,I simply informed them i had not had a return to work interview each time i was off (True) So how am i to know what the attendance stardards are?
I knew the warning could never be issued,The manager interviewing me knew this too,It was all over within 5 mins and that was that.
Have you had your return to work interviews? So many rules and expectations are made by royal mail that the managers usually miss something and you will get off on a technicality.
Im on the sick at the moment and when i go back i know im going to be issued a stage 1,So im going to go back to work for 1 day and go on the sick the next for another week,This will be taken into account and not change anything,Still get a stage 1 but due to the lack of speed im given another week off.
Im 17 years down the line and the sick system they have is so easy to exploit,Used to be a model postman but the way they treat us now i basically think f**k you royal mail,Im looking after myself and working the system.
The boss hates me but can do nothing,Work to rule,Put fleas in the new boys ears telling them how to do things right,Nothing the bosses can do.
Im a human,Not a f***ing robot,They shove rules and regs down our throat all the time,So i do the same and work to rule.
The job i loved has been ruined by the fat cats and i HATE fat cats.
Anyway im waffling,Good luck but i dont think you need it.

That's a very good point about the RTW . There's one member of staff who is beyond redemption , otherwise unemployable , instuitionalized , bad attitude , lazy etc , etc , however if he had been off , whatever the shortcomings which there are many , of that particular manager , she had him so fast in the office for a RTW ; his feet did not touch ! .

I thought they wanted rid of him .



With regard to the OP , to a IT ; it's did RM follow it's own procedures ?

[MAILMAN84]

Well now it's got me thinking.

Last stage 3 i had a lot of 1-2 day absences which were related to panic attacks and I nearly got fired as I couldn't claim it was a disability as I hadn't mentioned it when I applied to RM. This time around it's been 10 months since my stage 3 become a stage 2 again and I have been off twice. I was off for 1 day (which was annoyingly a Saturday) because my mate had been taken to hospital after falling off his flat window after trying to scale it when forgetting his keys. Obviously you're not allowed a private life at RM but my manager put down in my return to work 'TIRED'. I only just remembered today that he didn't give me a RTW. He wrote some stuff onto the form, told me he said I was tired and asked me to sign it (I actually WAS tired that morning so didn't properly read it). The 2nd absence was last week which was down to 2 days of panic attacks where I couldn't leave the house.

The more i think about it the stronger I think my case is. What I really want to know is how can I go about proving I didn't get a RTW from the DOM. He does this all the time, in fact he usually says 'sign this and I'll write something up later'

[norbert]

Well now it's got me thinking.

Last stage 3 i had a lot of 1-2 day absences which were related to panic attacks and I nearly got fired as I couldn't claim it was a disability as I hadn't mentioned it when I applied to RM. This time around it's been 10 months since my stage 3 become a stage 2 again and I have been off twice. I was off for 1 day (which was annoyingly a Saturday) because my mate had been taken to hospital after falling off his flat window after trying to scale it when forgetting his keys. Obviously you're not allowed a private life at RM but my manager put down in my return to work 'TIRED'. I only just remembered today that he didn't give me a RTW. He wrote some stuff onto the form, told me he said I was tired and asked me to sign it (I actually WAS tired that morning so didn't properly read it). The 2nd absence was last week which was down to 2 days of panic attacks where I couldn't leave the house.

The more i think about it the stronger I think my case is. What I really want to know is how can I go about proving I didn't get a RTW from the DOM. He does this all the time, in fact he usually says 'sign this and I'll write something up later'

puttting tired down is a slur to trivialize an absence and it's to impress a more senior manager - i.e. "he can't take days off when he feels like it" , the bit about the keys could be deemed as " domestic distress " , OK , there are professional mourners etc that take the p**s but not everyone does it .

As for proving that you did not have a RTW , you may be believed on the balance of probabilities , that's where RM slip up as everything on Planet RM is in black & white but in the real world there's shades of grey .

You're going to need anecdotal / circumstantial evidence from the Union / other staff to state the DIM DUM and his pals are a bit ? lax and management staff - relations are too cosy to back up that claim .

[TrueBlueTerrier]

in fact he usually says 'sign this and I'll write something up later'

Not only is that questionable legally but also morally. I would never ever sign something after being told "I'll add something later" .

I sign a finished document and if there is a gap where something can be added I write a large Z or X in the gap so that nothing can be added after. This is something I picked up in the forces.

[brothermagrew]

Well now it's got me thinking.

Last stage 3 i had a lot of 1-2 day absences which were related to panic attacks and I nearly got fired as I couldn't claim it was a disability as I hadn't mentioned it when I applied to RM. This time around it's been 10 months since my stage 3 become a stage 2 again and I have been off twice. I was off for 1 day (which was annoyingly a Saturday) because my mate had been taken to hospital after falling off his flat window after trying to scale it when forgetting his keys. Obviously you're not allowed a private life at RM but my manager put down in my return to work 'TIRED'. I only just remembered today that he didn't give me a RTW. He wrote some stuff onto the form, told me he said I was tired and asked me to sign it (I actually WAS tired that morning so didn't properly read it). The 2nd absence was last week which was down to 2 days of panic attacks where I couldn't leave the house.

The more i think about it the stronger I think my case is. What I really want to know is how can I go about proving I didn't get a RTW from the DOM. He does this all the time, in fact he usually says 'sign this and I'll write something up later'

I would presume that the prove is in the pudding, let him or her produce the document with your signature which therefore validates his or her claim that you did indeed receive a Return to Work Interview. No document and no signature would therefore equate to NO Return to Work Interview.