Quick question regarding strike ballot...

[axeman]

Simple answer join the fekin union !! if your stupid enough to sit on the fence then you have no right to a vote if you joined then you'd have that democratic right wether it yay or nay ...my opinion is if your not in the union then quite obviously you'll do any thing your lord and master 'lil ad' wants because you do not have a backbone

[andy2007]

So, in a General Election:

50% of the electorate stick their heads in the sand and don't vote.

Yes but in a general election you have the RIGHT to vote, whether you do or not is another matter.

My point was that there were lots of postmen who would want to vote but couldn't. Anyway, how they get to vote has been established now.

That's the point he was making. There are large numbers of people in Britain, who can't be bothered to vote. But who complain when they don't get the outcome they want. There are also a lot of Posties, who don't bother to contribute to the Union. But they also complain about the outcome of Ballots. The only difference, is that non-Union Posties, have made a concious decision not to contribute to the Union. And those who don't bother to vote in a General Election, are just plain lazy. But the outcome is the same: If you don't bother to make yourself eligable to vote. You can't vote. So you shouldn't complain if things don't go the way you want them to.

If you want to have a say in what happens at work. You must join the Union, because that's what it's there for. Otherwise, you might just as well, try turning up at Parliament, and try to get permission to vote on Government Policy. It ain't going to happen.

[Midge]

Just through talking to colleagues you get to know these things. I wouldn’t say it’s apathy or ignorance if someone has left the CWU by choice.

Perhaps (God forbid) they’re happy in their job and don’t want to strike. Of course everyone knows that if a national strike is called you don’t cross picket lines and therefore are forced to strike against your will and without having voted for it.

On the grounds of fairness, couldn’t the ballot be done by an independent body to include everyone and therefore get a true representation of ALL who would be affected by strike action? That’s all I’m saying!

Is it only me that this thinks this all sounds ta little too much like Royal Mail propaganda?

Just wait till the local DOM decides he/she doesn't want to take notice of the recognised trade union in the shape of the local CWU, even though 60% of CWU members (i.e. 45 of the 75 members) in an office of 100 staff voted to reject the DOM's proposals.

Just watch as the DOM decides to hold a quick show of hands in the Work Time Learning session instead of accepting the CWU members' vote, or says that only 45 staff rejected the proposals out of 100, that means 55 must be in favour.


Come on FellChair, own up, which office do you manage?

[andy2007]

Simple answer join the fekin union !! if your stupid enough to sit on the fence then you have no right to a vote if you joined then you'd have that democratic right wether it yay or nay ...my opinion is if your not in the union then quite obviously you'll do any thing your lord and master 'lil ad' wants because you do not have a backbone

I think we've already established, that he didn't understand the difference, between being in the Union, and having a vote in the Ballots. We've tried our best to explain the situation. But apart from the fact that he now understands how to become eligable to vote. He still doesn't seem to understand why it's neccessary.

I know it's frustrating. But to say he's no backbone, when he's had the guts to come on here, and not just ask the question. But stand up for those, who aren't already Members (he's already stated that he IS a Member), but still want a say in what happens. That takes a lot of backbone! Now if he'd asked on PMC. That's another matter. They don't tend to be as hostile, in these debates.

When someone asks this type of question. We need to educate them, not hassle them.

[andy2007]

Just through talking to colleagues you get to know these things. I wouldn’t say it’s apathy or ignorance if someone has left the CWU by choice.

Perhaps (God forbid) they’re happy in their job and don’t want to strike. Of course everyone knows that if a national strike is called you don’t cross picket lines and therefore are forced to strike against your will and without having voted for it.

On the grounds of fairness, couldn’t the ballot be done by an independent body to include everyone and therefore get a true representation of ALL who would be affected by strike action? That’s all I’m saying!

Is it only me that this thinks this all sounds ta little too much like Royal Mail propaganda?

Just wait till the local DOM decides he/she doesn't want to take notice of the recognised trade union in the shape of the local CWU, even though 60% of CWU members (i.e. 45 of the 75 members) in an office of 100 staff voted to reject the DOM's proposals.

Just watch as the DOM decides to hold a quick show of hands in the Work Time Learning session instead of accepting the CWU members' vote, or says that only 45 staff rejected the proposals out of 100, that means 55 must be in favour.


Come on FellChair, own up, which office do you manage?

I don't know whether you're right or not. And quite frankly, I don't think it matters, whether Fellchair is a Manager or not. Many people go to great lengths to hide their identity on here. But if you are right, and Fellchair was to answer your question. It could give away his identity. Parhaps it would be better, just to ask which AREA (if any), he's a Manager in.

[dvbuk55]

When someone asks this type of question. We need to educate them, not hassle them.

That is quite correct. A National Ballot is in the offing and there are some offices, mine amongst them, who have probably 25-30% non union members, now I am not for one moment suggesting that all of the non members would cross the picket line, but from experience from the last action I would suggest that a fair proportion WILL and it is only common sense not to alienate those colleagues who choose not to be a member of the union and who could make a difference in any forthcoming industrial action. As has been said previously it is a question, not only of conscience, but of fairness to the workforce as a whole and non members are treated just as unfairly as members. Solidarity is required not confrontation.

[FellChair]

Come on FellChair, own up, which office do you manage?

OK OK, I manage the whole of the country, I am AC in disguise!

[mrlovepantsuk]

Yes but in a general election you have the RIGHT to vote, whether you do or not is another matter.

My point was that there were lots of postmen who would want to vote but couldn't. Anyway, how they get to vote has been established now.

you have the right to vote in this if you are a union member as it is a union ballot. if the result is a yes to strike you still have the right to strike even if you are not a union member, as you have the right to work if you are a union member.

if you are not a union member though and we do strike and get better conditions, more pay etc. just remember who made the sacrifices to get it for you.

[Midge]

When someone asks this type of question. We need to educate them, not hassle them.

That is quite correct. A National Ballot is in the offing and there are some offices, mine amongst them, who have probably 25-30% non union members, now I am not for one moment suggesting that all of the non members would cross the picket line, but from experience from the last action I would suggest that a fair proportion WILL and it is only common sense not to alienate those colleagues who choose not to be a member of the union and who could make a difference in any forthcoming industrial action. As has been said previously it is a question, not only of conscience, but of fairness to the workforce as a whole and non members are treated just as unfairly as members. Solidarity is required not confrontation.

In the run-up to 2007 strike, in my office, we recruited a fair number of people who had previously declined to join. Many of them were new to unions, and even new to work (youngsters that they are). We bore no grudges.

However, it seems that they noticed a need to join with the rest, for solidarity, and collective strength, in the face of management intimidation..

Although we never got to 100% membership in the office, we did have 100% on strike. No-one, whether a member or not, crossed the picket line.

We simply pointed out that, amongst other things, being a scab doesn't protect you from management victimisation, and sometimes invites it.

We also pointed out that joining the CWU doesn't make you bullet-proof, but it does mean that you will get CWU support if you are picked on for striking with your mates.

They're not daft, you know, these youngsters.

[FellChair]

Parhaps it would be better, just to ask which AREA (if any), he's a Manager in.

I think it's important to remember that the views expressed on here are not representative of postmen all a whole. They do tend to be somewhat militant and anti-Royal Mail which is fine, but just because a postman thinks differently doesn't mean he's a manager. That's not to say I haven't experienced a lot of, if not all of the problems people talk about here but just because I'm not vehemently against RM it doesn't follow that I'm on the dark side. If we talk about solidarity then middle of the road views must be incorporated as well, it surely can't just be the case that those who shout the loudest against RM are the voice of all postmen.

[DGP1]

I'm neither militant nor anti RM (OK maybe a bit militant but only because of the way I and my fellow workers have been treated) and I think the reason we're the way we are is because we want RM to succeed but all we see is cuts and panic driven changes which are implemented and then thrown out for more changes to be tried etc.

[dvbuk55]

They're not daft, you know, these youngsters.

You somehow assume that the non union members are youngsters which is a long way from the truth, some are female, some middle aged, some older than me,
the predominance is part time and that seems to be the reason for non membership, hoping for a full time contract presumably or having retired from one career do this as a part time job. It is a concern that I have brought to the attention of the Branch but there seems to be little action from that quarter - I believe complacency breeds complacency.

[dvbuk55]

I'm neither militant nor anti RM (OK maybe a bit militant but only because of the way I and my fellow workers have been treated) and I think the reason we're the way we are is because we want RM to succeed but all we see is cuts and panic driven changes which are implemented and then thrown out for more changes to be tried etc.

Me neither, but enough is enough. To say the loonies are running the asylum is an understatement, there hasn't, certainly in the last 5 years been a strategy that has been completed successfully before the next stage of incompetence is implemented. Lucky for me I'm as old as I am.

By the way the shortcut on the avatar doesn't work - not that I haven't seen it all before - and when I say all I don't mean to imply largesse

[spilie]

fellchair if you or any of the other "middle of the road" guys on here think what RM are doing is fair then good for you, but where does it all end? we want fairness and respect thats all, just treat us like MP`s or Bankers. Let us rip the public off, finish early , decide our own pay rise, have long summer holidays, and a big fat pension at the end of the day, surely not to much to ask ........ is it?

[andy2007]

Parhaps it would be better, just to ask which AREA (if any), he's a Manager in.

I think it's important to remember that the views expressed on here are not representative of postmen all a whole. They do tend to be somewhat militant and anti-Royal Mail which is fine, but just because a postman thinks differently doesn't mean he's a manager. That's not to say I haven't experienced a lot of, if not all of the problems people talk about here but just because I'm not vehemently against RM it doesn't follow that I'm on the dark side. If we talk about solidarity then middle of the road views must be incorporated as well, it surely can't just be the case that those who shout the loudest against RM are the voice of all postmen.

As I said in the original post: I don't know whether he was right or not. All I was saying, was that IF (thanks for including that part of the quote) you were. He should only ask for the area, and not anything more specific. As a lot of places only have a few Managers.

Personally, I neither know, nor care what grade you (or anyone else) are. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and to express it on here. And for the record: Although I am Militant. I'm NOT anti-Management per se. Just anti Fat Cats, ruining our once great service. I actually know a few very good, local Managers. And have said so, on many occasions, on here.

I don't see this conflict, as us against Management. But Posties and local Managers, against a couple of Fat Cats. I know that there are some, who will be incenced by my attitude [hides behind the sofa ]. But I'm as entitled to it, as everyone else, is to theirs.