Royal Mail in dock as fraudsters have post redirected

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Cou ... 5550154.jp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A couple from West Yorkshire are demanding answers from Royal Mail after identity fraudsters applied for credit cards in their name after getting their post redirected.
David and Lorraine Behrens realised there was a problem after receiving no post at their home in Menston for two weeks, including cheques they were expecting.

After pushing Royal Mail to act they were shocked to learn their mail had been redirected to an address in Oldham and then discovered an application for a credit card which they never made had been accepted with another one pending.

The couple have hit out at Royal Mail's complaints procedure, saying they were initially given no help when reporting the missing mail to their local sorting office in Ilkley. Mr Behrens, 52, said: "It was as well we acted when we did because left to Royal Mail's devices we would have faced two credit card bills by now.

"We couldn't get through to a human being on their phone line so my wife went along to the local sorting office in Ilkley. They were spectacularly unhelpful and suggested nothing other than that we tried the phone again. Eventually we got the name of the head postmaster and wrote to him. He told us our mail had been redirected to an address in Oldham which I discovered was an unoccupied house in a rundown district."

Through subsequent correspondence with Craig Wood, Royal Mail's assistant to board members in London, the couple learned the redirection was applied for at a post office counter.

They are now demanding to know how someone was able to redirect mail in person when proof of a customer's name and address is required.

It has since emerged that whoever applied for the mail redirection used Mr and Mrs Behrens' names but one of their neighbours' addresses and they never received the redirection confirmation letter from Royal Mail that would have alerted them.

In an email to Mr Behrens, Mr Wood apologised "for the concern and inconvenience" the matter had caused.

He said the application was made out in the couple's names but gave a neighbour's address rather than theirs.

He said: "The redirection confirmation letter was posted on July 16 but as it was addressed to 'The Occupier' it may therefore have been delivered to your neighbour and this may explain why you did not receive it.

"Our records indicate the redirection was applied for at a Post Office counter, and staff there would have examined and confirmed the relevant proofs."

He added: "I am also sorry Mrs Behrens found staff at the delivery office unhelpful."

The couple have reported the matter to West Yorkshire Police who said they have passed it on to police in Burnley.

A Royal Mail spokesman said the case was also being looked at by its security team.

In response to the confusion over Mr Behrens' address and that of his neighbour's he said: "It looks like a case of human error for which we apologise."

But Mr Behrens added: "Royal Mail security is a joke. They are making life easy for identity thieves. We are now having to ask people to re-send cheques that were posted to us and claim refunds for children's DVDs and other items we ordered and should have been delivered."

[DGP1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but whenever you ask for a redirection you get a letter sent to your address telling you that your mail will be redirected and these letters have an instruction on it to be delivered as addressed.

[andy2007]

That's one of the more worrying aspects of this case: "It has since emerged that whoever applied for the mail redirection used Mr and Mrs Behrens' names but one of their neighbours' addresses and they never received the redirection confirmation letter from Royal Mail that would have alerted them.". Now surely, that shouldn't be possible, should it?
The notification should be sent to the original address, not a neighbour's address, shouldn't it!

[Lounge Lizard]

That's one of the more worrying aspects of this case: "It has since emerged that whoever applied for the mail redirection used Mr and Mrs Behrens' names but one of their neighbours' addresses and they never received the redirection confirmation letter from Royal Mail that would have alerted them.". Now surely, that shouldn't be possible, should it?
The notification should be sent to the original address, not a neighbour's address, shouldn't it!

So if a neighbour's address was on the redirection such that the letter about the redirection went to the neighbours address then Royal Mail aren't at fault in this respect.
Surely a system where RM sends a letter confirming a redirection is due to start is an adequate security measure, and RM can't be expected to predict every fraudster's possible illegal trickery.

[tiredwalker]

That's one of the more worrying aspects of this case: "It has since emerged that whoever applied for the mail redirection used Mr and Mrs Behrens' names but one of their neighbours' addresses and they never received the redirection confirmation letter from Royal Mail that would have alerted them.". Now surely, that shouldn't be possible, should it?
The notification should be sent to the original address, not a neighbour's address, shouldn't it!

The confirmation letter definitely goes to both the new address and the existing address. Far be it for me to say but the story has quite a few flaws in it.

[andy2007]

That's one of the more worrying aspects of this case: "It has since emerged that whoever applied for the mail redirection used Mr and Mrs Behrens' names but one of their neighbours' addresses and they never received the redirection confirmation letter from Royal Mail that would have alerted them.". Now surely, that shouldn't be possible, should it?
The notification should be sent to the original address, not a neighbour's address, shouldn't it!

So if a neighbour's address was on the redirection such that the letter about the redirection went to the neighbours address then Royal Mail aren't at fault in this respect.
Surely a system where RM sends a letter confirming a redirection is due to start is an adequate security measure, and RM can't be expected to predict every fraudster's possible illegal trickery.

They shouldn't have agreed to send the confirmation to a different address. It should have gone to the old, and new addresses. Otherwise, anyone could go into the Post Office, and set up a redirection, to get anyone's Mail!

[DGP1]

That's one of the more worrying aspects of this case: "It has since emerged that whoever applied for the mail redirection used Mr and Mrs Behrens' names but one of their neighbours' addresses and they never received the redirection confirmation letter from Royal Mail that would have alerted them.". Now surely, that shouldn't be possible, should it?
The notification should be sent to the original address, not a neighbour's address, shouldn't it!

So if a neighbour's address was on the redirection such that the letter about the redirection went to the neighbours address then Royal Mail aren't at fault in this respect.
Surely a system where RM sends a letter confirming a redirection is due to start is an adequate security measure, and RM can't be expected to predict every fraudster's possible illegal trickery.

They shouldn't have agreed to send the confirmation to a different address. It should have gone to the old, and new addresses. Otherwise, anyone could go into the Post Office, and set up a redirection, to get anyone's Mail!

But did RM break their own rules or was a letter sent and the people just ignored it or even worse, did the postie ignore the 'Do Not Redirect' on the envelope.

[andy2007]

That's what everyone needs to find out. If it's a problem with our procedures, then they need to be changed, to stop this ever happening again. If it was negligence on the part of anyone, they need to face a disciplinary. If the victims of the fraud, did, recieve the notification, ignored it, and then denied ever recieving it. Then they should face prosecution. But I doubt that scenario, as the article specifically states that the notification was sent to a neighbour's address. Either that's true, or the Reporter will be in serious legal trouble. Because of the harm such an inaccuracy would cause RM.

Whatever the outcome. We need answers fast, before too much damage is done to our reputation.

[mailsort6]

That's one of the more worrying aspects of this case: "It has since emerged that whoever applied for the mail redirection used Mr and Mrs Behrens' names but one of their neighbours' addresses and they never received the redirection confirmation letter from Royal Mail that would have alerted them.". Now surely, that shouldn't be possible, should it?
The notification should be sent to the original address, not a neighbour's address, shouldn't it!

So if a neighbour's address was on the redirection such that the letter about the redirection went to the neighbours address then Royal Mail aren't at fault in this respect.
Surely a system where RM sends a letter confirming a redirection is due to start is an adequate security measure, and RM can't be expected to predict every fraudster's possible illegal trickery.

They shouldn't have agreed to send the confirmation to a different address. It should have gone to the old, and new addresses. Otherwise, anyone could go into the Post Office, and set up a redirection, to get anyone's Mail!

The thing is anyone can set-up a redirection in order to scam someone. Usually you can phone or fill-in a 'keep safe' application form to get your mail redirected. What I want to know is how did the scammers pay for the redirection service in the first place, since you have either got to pay by credit card, postal order or cheque or can 'keep safe application form' be paid for at any post office by cash? To tell the truth what RM should do is that when the confirmation letter is sent out it should have an activation code, which means you have to phone RM up with the activate code they issue you in the letter in order to get your mail redirected and if you don't have the activation code you do not get the redirection.

[POSTMAN]

I've had a redi come to me,then i have to redi it to somewhere else!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://www.ilkleygazette.co.uk/news/new ... s_missing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ilkley Gazette report on same story.

A couple from Menston have hit out at the Royal Mail after fraudsters redirected their post in order to steal their identity and open bogus bank accounts.

Lorraine and David Behrens believe that the Royal Mail’s internet redirection service is not secure enough to prevent criminals taking advantage of it.

The couple, of Otley Road, began to get concerned after they did not receive any mail over a three-week period last month.

Lorraine, 46, said: “We were starting to get a bit suspicious – we had ordered things from e-bay. We went to Ilkley sorting office and they said they could not help us.

“We thought maybe it had been delayed. By the end of that week we were getting frustrated and wrote to John Carter, the manager.”

They also began telephoning and e-mailing but were struggling to get anything other than an automated reply, said Lorraine. The couple then received a telephone call to say that their mail had been redirected without their knowledge to an address in Oldham.

Lorraine said: “The property in Oldham is empty and someone had been going along scooping up all our mail and I don’t know who else’s.”

Royal Mail reinstated their correct mail address and said that their fraud team would investigate the incident.

Once they started receiving their mail again, the couple received forms and letters from various banks thanking them for applying to open an account and asking for more details.

On one of the forms which had been returned from the bank for more details to be added, Lorraine’s signature had clearly been forged.

The couple have passed on the applications to the police so they can investigate. But they are angry that the fraudsters were so easily able to redirect their mail.

Lorraine said that while anyone attempting to set up a mail redirection in person at a post office would need various documents to prove their bona fides, it was not the case when doing it online.

“We think they need to tighten up on their security measures,” said Lorraine.

They are also unhappy that Royal Mail has a policy of replying to e-mails over a period of five working days, which could stretch to more than a week if weekends or bank holidays are taken into account.

“They say they take five working days, but I think with something like this there should be an immediate response,” she said.

Another problem the couple have is that when Royal Mail redirects mail, a letter containing all the details is supposed to be sent out to the previous address as an additional security measure.

“Royal Mail need to investigate why we did not receive this redirection notice – we never got that letter,” said freelance artist Lorraine.

A Royal Mail spokesman said: “We are sorry that Mr and Mrs Behrens have had a problem with our service. Royal Mail customer services is currently investi-gating their complaint and will be in contact with them in due course.”

He added: “When a customer takes out a redirection, a letter is sent to the old address as a security measure to ensure that the person requesting the redirection has lived at the address and is entitled to redirect mail for the people named.

“All customers wishing to use the Royal Mail redirection service undergo a number of security checks in order that their application can be verified.

“All online applications are checked for identification with a third party for accuracy and when payments are accepted a check is made to ensure the credit/debit card is registered in the name of the person requesting the redirection and that it has not been reported lost or stolen.

“Both of these are recognised security industry standards.”

[opgpat]

From the little crucial info in this story I'd say the two addresses (redirect and neighbours) must have been similar eg 29A and 29. So the confirmation letter comes throught to the frame and it says Mr+Mrs FK Smith/Occuppier at 29 so that's where it goes even though they live at 29A - you don't always read the names so no probs so far if it was named.
When the redirect card comes through postie sees it says Mr & Mrs FK Smith at 29. He thinks, hang on it's Bloggs at 29, they made a mistake somewhere so I'll change this to 29A and henceforth that's the mail that is redirected. OK he shouldn't have altered the card but seemed the correct thing to do and I bet a manager would have OKed the alteration as it does seem sensible. If the addresses were 29 and 31 I couldn't see this happening?

[Lounge Lizard]

"It has since emerged that whoever applied for the mail redirection used Mr and Mrs Behrens' names but one of their neighbours' addresses and they never received the redirection confirmation letter from Royal Mail that would have alerted them."

So the postman CORRECTLY delivered the letter about the redirection to the address on the envelope which was the address next door to Mr and Mrs Behrens, and that's why the Behrens knew nothing of it and the fraudster got away with the crime.
All of us that know our walk well will often think ''they're not there, they're at ...." and deliver it not to where addressed but where we know it should go, but that is not how we are instructed to do the job.

[mailsort6]

The thing is if the neigbhour got the confirmation letter from RM and it did not have their name/s on why did they not knock on their neighbours door and say is this letter meant for them if they knew their names or return the letter back to RM stating this person/s does not live at this address as a result the mail would not have been redirected.

[Lounge Lizard]

The thing is if the neigbhour got the confirmation letter from RM and it did not have their name/s on why did they not knock on their neighbours door and say is this letter meant for them if they knew their names or return the letter back to RM stating this person/s does not live at this address as a result the mail would not have been redirected.

Possibly because in this post-Thatcher 'society' most peoplke don't know their neighbour and care even less about them so any post not for oneself is just thrown away.