CWU v RM v THE PUBLIC

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So who are the morons exactly?

:lfo :cfo :mfo to name 3

[TrueBlueTerrier]

So who are the morons exactly?

Now to answer it properly -

I think the term morons was used to highlight not the general intelligence of the General Public, but the current trend at the moment, and probably for the past century or so, of people believing what they see in Print and on the TV.

People no longer question the "official" view and accept what is put in front of them, they no longer go looking for alternative sources of news or opposing views and it seems that self education is sometimes viewed with contempt.

Probably explains the rise of "Big Brother" and "Dispatches" style of TV shows, instant gratification, and the decline of Documentaries and Scientific type programs that make you think and question things.

[somerset]

I just love the way my post has gone off the topic i asked?

Now, your inital post was about Tesco selling longer condoms or something

Excuse me but what planet our you on? It is about CWU v RM v THE PUBLIC ? Stay of the guinness mate ?

It was a joke, if you don't learn to relax you'll end up blowing a fuse, now, did you say you where getting me a guinness it'll go along with those longer condoms that I need

My apoligies mate Realised after my post. It is your irish humour

[DGP1]

I just love the way my post has gone off the topic i asked?

Now, your inital post was about Tesco selling longer condoms or something

Excuse me but what planet our you on? It is about CWU v RM v THE PUBLIC ? Stay of the guinness mate ?

It was a joke, if you don't learn to relax you'll end up blowing a fuse, now, did you say you where getting me a guinness it'll go along with those longer condoms that I need

My apoligies mate Realised after my post. It is your irish humour

No problem, it can take a while to get into my sense of humour but once you do it's a very twisted place rather like Salvador Dali on acid

[Lounge Lizard]

With all the money we all pay in subs each week surely it would be so easy to take out a full page spead in the national press to put forward our case ?

unless its all gone to pay billy's pay rise

Or better still the CWU should provide us each with A5 fact sheets about the reasons for the strike, RM's agenda etc.
Those who mention the strikes to us are those most interested and most likely to take in the information if we gave them the leaflet, a dozen or so of which could be folded once to fit in the top pocket with the P739s.
The cost to the CWU would be a fraction of each members subscription for just one week.

[mh80]

With all the money we all pay in subs each week surely it would be so easy to take out a full page spead in the national press to put forward our case ?

unless its all gone to pay billy's pay rise

Or better still the CWU should provide us each with A5 fact sheets about the reasons for the strike, RM's agenda etc.
Those who mention the strikes to us are those most interested and most likely to take in the information if we gave them the leaflet, a dozen or so of which could be folded once to fit in the top pocket with the P739s.
The cost to the CWU would be a fraction of each members subscription for just one week.

Good idea that, we should get emailing them

[steven100]

I agree with a lot posts, the public don't really care. With most only getting crap through their letterboxes, why should they care. Most people get important bills etc by e-mail.
So our fight should be really with Royal Mail, :lfo :cfo , trying to stop them attack our conditions anymore.

[OnAFlyer]

Are the CWU demanding a pay rise? Yes.
Are the CWU demanding a shorter working week? Yes.

All in the middle of a recession where many people are fighting to keep their heads above water. Maybe it's the CWU that the are morons, not the general public.

If this strike is really about changes being forced through etc etc, then why didn't the CWU leave the pay issue out of it? they know full well that RM and the national press will jump all over it and make it a huge issue.

Brainless.

[OnAFlyer]

Are the CWU demanding a pay rise? Yes.
Are the CWU demanding a shorter working week? Yes.

All in the middle of a recession where many people are fighting to keep their heads above water. Maybe it's the CWU that the are morons, not the general public.

If this strike is really about changes being forced through etc etc, then why didn't the CWU leave the pay issue out of it? they know full well that RM and the national press will jump all over it and make it a huge issue.

Brainless.

FFS! To the best of my knowledge the CWU have demanded NOTHING other than RM stick to aggreements that RM beat out of a very weak CWU leadership in 2007! Anything else is BS as is the above!

Maybe someone ought to get this CWU facebook page removed then? http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=92434260959" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A CLEAR CHOICE,
VOTE YES FOR A DECENT FUTURE!
As a member of the CWU you will have a simple and clear choice to make when you are balloted for National Industrial Action. It will be Vote Yes for Industrial action including Strike action or Vote No. We have set out the stark difference on voting yes or no when you vote in September.

Vote Yes:-If you want,
•Job Security and not to be made compulsory redundant
Get a Pay Rise
•Want a Shorter Working Week
•Have a Full Time Job in the future
•Dignity and Respect whilst at work
•Have a national agreement covering how you will work in the future and have a balanced and fair workload at work that is achievable
•No compulsory transfers to different offices and the terms of the Managing the Surplus Framework adhered to.
•Be rewarded for modernising the industry
•Guarantee and safeguard your earnings
•Have a decent pension when you retire
•If you want a strong trade union representing you in the future

Vote NO:-If you want,
•Compulsory redundancies
•A Pay Freeze
•No reduction in your working week
•Your job reduced to part time
•To feel bullied and intimidated at work everyday.
•Come into work on a daily basis not knowing what you are going to do
•Compulsory transferred to another office
•No payment whatsoever for helping modernise the industry
•Earning potentials slashed frozen and cut.
•A reduced and worse pension when you retire
•A trade union that does not fight for your rights and is not allowed to negotiate agreements that safeguard your future terms and conditions.

Support your Union’s campaign to achieve a National Agreement. Reject Royal Mails slash, burn and downsize policy for our industry. VOTE YES

[andy2007]

Are the CWU demanding a pay rise? Yes.
Are the CWU demanding a shorter working week? Yes.

All in the middle of a recession where many people are fighting to keep their heads above water. Maybe it's the CWU that the are morons, not the general public.

If this strike is really about changes being forced through etc etc, then why didn't the CWU leave the pay issue out of it? they know full well that RM and the national press will jump all over it and make it a huge issue.

Brainless.

Those are only 2 issues, in a long list. But the Press always concentrate on Pay. As for the shorter working week. That was agreed at Conference some time ago. So they've no choice, but to include it. Although personally, I think it's a very bad idea to try to achieve a shorter working week. But Unions are Democracies, and the majority want it, so we're stuck with it!

As for the Pay: RM have made a major profit, and can afford a modest Pay Rise. Which in the current financial climate, will help us keep our heads above water. If the rest of the Public aren't getting pay rises. Then either, their Employers have made a loss, or broken even. And can't afford to give one. Or they don't have any backbone, and failed to stand up for themselves. To try to avoid financial hardship.

Fuel prices are going up (5p per Litre for Petrol soon), many people are in financial trouble, due to the Credit Crunch. What do you expect us to do?
Ignore reality?
Take a dive, for the sake of a couple of Fat Cats?

And what about the service we provide?
Should we allow it to be continually undermined, by those blinded by Computer Models. So that people get their Mail later, and later?
Come on. Think about it.

Where in the Press, are there any headlines, explaining the truth behind all the other demands?
They often report that there are problems over modernisation. But they always give a very biased slant on it, making us look like a bunch of Luddites (yes IWW, I know that they were a gallant bunch. But the word is now used to describe anyone who's afraid of, and/or fights against new technology), who just want to line their own pockets.

[Night Tonic]

Er, sorry, he's right, the CWU DID put out an official press release last week with pay and shorter working week as part of the reasons for voting for a national strike. Needless to say we laughed fit to bust when that arrived. The union hasn't a clue, desperate and out of touch. No wonder no one in my DO is interested in anything it has to say. CWU - Clown Workers Union, thats what that stands for. Its fighting for its own survival now.

[andy2007]

Er, sorry, he's right, the CWU DID put out an official press release last week with pay and shorter working week as part of the reasons for voting for a national strike. Needless to say we laughed fit to bust when that arrived. The union hasn't a clue, desperate and out of touch. No wonder no one in my DO is interested in anything it has to say. CWU - Clown Workers Union, thats what that stands for. Its fighting for its own survival now.

Although I agree with you about the shorter working week (the majority asked for it, so we're stuck with it as a policy), being out of touch with current events. In what way is a modest pay rise, out of touch?
Credit's more expensive, so's fuel, and many other things. RM has made huge profits again. So it's not like they can't afford it.

But far more importantly: There are 8 other issues that we're fighting for. So even if anyone was to accept your point of view. That's only 20% of the issues. Which leaves 80%, which even YOU don't have a valid argument against (at least you haven't expressed any yet).

Don't you think it would be a bit short sighted to let so many important issues, fall by the wayside. Because you don't agree with a minority of them?

[Night Tonic]

The problem Andy is what starts out as one or two issues becomes a dozen unrelated ones. If the union focused more it might not see DOs like mine turn their back on the union. Is it about pay or isn't it about pay cos the public sure thinks it is.

[axeman]

Er, sorry, he's right, the CWU DID put out an official press release last week with pay and shorter working week as part of the reasons for voting for a national strike. Needless to say we laughed fit to bust when that arrived. The union hasn't a clue, desperate and out of touch. No wonder no one in my DO is interested in anything it has to say. CWU - Clown Workers Union, thats what that stands for. Its fighting for its own survival now.

sarcastic to say the least as your not from a 'do' be very careful in chosing your words as not to incense those who are genuinely aggreeved at the way royal fails arsh*le managers are interpreting an aggreement reached in good faith by the cwu :cfo :cfo

[andy2007]

The problem Andy is what starts out as one or two issues becomes a dozen unrelated ones. If the union focused more it might not see DOs like mine turn their back on the union. Is it about pay or isn't it about pay cos the public sure thinks it is.

The Union are focusing on what the majority (of those who attended meetings to voice their opinions) want. When you're dealing with a group of people as large as the RM Workforce. It's inevitable that you will get one or two issues, that some don't agree with. But that's no reason to throw the towel in.

I admit, that there are a large number of Posties, who can't be bothered to turn up to meetings. But even they get a say, if they take the trouble to go to their Reps, and ask them to bring up the points on their behalf. Although, if they're not there. They can only have their opinions voiced. They can't vote, as it's done (in my experience) with a show of hands. It's actually depressing, just how few bother to turn up to ours. But their views are always voiced by the Reps anyway (which might be why they don't bother making the journey). But I digress.

Now as for the pay aspect of the Strike Ballot. Yes, it IS something that we are Striking over. But because a request for more pay, makes good headlines. When there are so many people struggling to make ends meet. That is of course, what the Press concentrate on. They do after all, want to sell more Papers/Keep ratings up. But to say that it's the REASON for the Strike Ballot, is at best inaccurate. And at worst, a deliberate attempt to hide the facts from the Public.

I said it in 2007. And I still stand by it now: Few, if any. Would be stupid enough to Strike over pay. Because Strikes loose the Employer money. Which makes them less able to afford to give a pay rise.

But as the days of either side, standing a chance of getting exactly what they want, after a Strike, are long gone. It makes sense to try to get some financial compensation, for the inevitable compromise, doesn't it?
Particularly at a time when so many people are struggling to pay their bills, and RM are in a position where they are making sufficient profits, to enable them to afford a modest pay rise. We're not asking for much. Just enough to avoid us being as out of pocket, as we are now. The amount we're asking for, doesn't even cover the increase in the cost of living, since the last one.