really really pissed off

[NWpostie]

when I first joined 21 years ago, I was a young sprog, I knew about the seniority system and did accept it as it was there, there were times when I get annoyed if I was pipped for a Walk I wanted by someone who is senior to me by a few month or years, I accepted it, I fully expected to reap the benefit once I have built up enough seniority, to date it has worked for me, I am not getting any younger so need this seniority to get something easier, the system works, it has for many years and why rock the boat ? after all those crumbling now about it will be glad of it in the years to come.

It is the fairest and simpliest way of allocating duties without any accusation of favouritism, nepotism or any other ism, probably the most balanced and neutral way of doing it, it is beyond reproach.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I'm surprised by all of the support for seniority. It belongs in the past, no other employers use it and it is a form of discrimination (which is probably why no other organisations use it!). Also, it doesn't stop favouritism, as people who are friends or relatives of managers/union reps/duty officers etc ALWAYS get looked after, even if they have only worked at RM for a year or two.

But what would you replace it with - there is no point in saying that seniority is unfair, without having something to replace it.

Also other employers do use seniority 3 are The Army, The Royal Navy and The Royal Air Force.

[DGP1]

I'm surprised by all of the support for seniority. It belongs in the past, no other employers use it and it is a form of discrimination (which is probably why no other organisations use it!). Also, it doesn't stop favouritism, as people who are friends or relatives of managers/union reps/duty officers etc ALWAYS get looked after, even if they have only worked at RM for a year or two.

But what would you replace it with - there is no point in saying that seniority is unfair, without having something to replace it.

Also other employers do use seniority 3 are The Army, The Royal Navy and The Royal Air Force.

And seniority has nothing to do with age, it's just how long you have worked for RM.

[k979aaa]

Seniority is experience vs youth!. Youth will have energy vigour and greed!. While experience has EXPERIENCE and we had all the following attributes too boot but we gained EXPERIENCE maybe you should gain EXPERIENCE before leaping in at the deep end and sinking before you can swim!.

[dvbuk55]

I'm surprised by all of the support for seniority. It belongs in the past, no other employers use it and it is a form of discrimination (which is probably why no other organisations use it!). Also, it doesn't stop favouritism, as people who are friends or relatives of managers/union reps/duty officers etc ALWAYS get looked after, even if they have only worked at RM for a year or two.

But what would you replace it with - there is no point in saying that seniority is unfair, without having something to replace it.

Also other employers do use seniority 3 are The Army, The Royal Navy and The Royal Air Force.

Well you are right in a sense, seniority counts within a rank structure but does not determine when you are promoted and that was a point made by a previous poster, ambition, ability and of course education counts for the benefit of promotion but not once promoted, then seniority takes over. There was however within some trades an automatic promotion structure for passing trade qualifications, but simple folk like me had to rely on killing the ones above me - no not really - I was too ill educated for trade training - for me it was point and shoot, simples.

I suppose we could use an education based system whereby an NVQ qualification stratified the staff and within that structure you had seniority - well I'd be cleaning the bogs again!!!!!!!!!!!!! Realistically though all the jobs are simple, which of course is why I am here, and so each job would have to be categorised and a structure agreed to enable an apportioning a duty to a suitably qualified NVQ person - and that would be determined on who passed the exam first regardless of seniority with RM.

But really who gives a sh*t?

[ghostgirl]

Or if the union was deciding then they could allocate the 'best' walks to the posties who do the job properly i.e.the ones who don't use their cars, who start at the time they are meant to start and don't run round like mad hatters tryin to get finished an hour earlier than they should - now that would set the cat amongst the pidgeons so to speak.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I'm surprised by all of the support for seniority. It belongs in the past, no other employers use it and it is a form of discrimination (which is probably why no other organisations use it!). Also, it doesn't stop favouritism, as people who are friends or relatives of managers/union reps/duty officers etc ALWAYS get looked after, even if they have only worked at RM for a year or two.

But what would you replace it with - there is no point in saying that seniority is unfair, without having something to replace it.

Also other employers do use seniority 3 are The Army, The Royal Navy and The Royal Air Force.

Well you are right in a sense, seniority counts within a rank structure but does not determine when you are promoted and that was a point made by a previous poster, ambition, ability and of course education counts for the benefit of promotion but not once promoted, then seniority takes over. There was however within some trades an automatic promotion structure for passing trade qualifications, but simple folk like me had to rely on killing the ones above me - no not really - I was too ill educated for trade training - for me it was point and shoot, simples.

I suppose we could use an education based system whereby an NVQ qualification stratified the staff and within that structure you had seniority - well I'd be cleaning the bogs again!!!!!!!!!!!!! Realistically though all the jobs are simple, which of course is why I am here, and so each job would have to be categorised and a structure agreed to enable an apportioning a duty to a suitably qualified NVQ person - and that would be determined on who passed the exam first regardless of seniority with RM.

But really who gives a sh*t?

In the RAF because promotion was so slow, they used seniority as the breaker for leave requests, and room allocation. Specially in barrack blocks because the most senior single Cpl would be put in charge of the best Barrack Block and get the only single room with fixed sink and bog if lucky . The lower down the scale in seniority the worst block you got until the lowest would have to go back to multi occupancy rooms.

Also the most Junior in the Officers and Sgts messes had to start the loyal toast as well.

[dvbuk55]

In the RAF because promotion was so slow, they used seniority as the breaker for leave requests, and room allocation. Specially in barrack blocks because the most senior single Cpl would be put in charge of the best Barrack Block and get the only single room with fixed sink and bog if lucky . The lower down the scale in seniority the worst block you got until the lowest would have to go back to multi occupancy rooms.

Also the most Junior in the Officers and Sgts messes had to start the loyal toast as well.

You see the problem in the RAF was there was no attrition - you don't always have to wait for things, sometimes you have to go and "find" them or "liberate" them - even when times were rough we lived reasonably comfortably - and barracks were a luxury not always available for long periods of time - but fun was always available, believe me I could write a book - well not really. Still that's digressing - but on that note did anyone complain about the way things were in the RAF? and if they did was the system changed to accommodate them? - no of course it wasn't.

[Pompey Boy]

TrueBlueTerrier,

OK I guess due to the nature of our job it would be difficult to replace length of service with anything else when it comes to repicks, although with certain duties like keys and tabs there is an interview as well, but then this can and has led to management favourites getting the duty. In an ideal world the drivers who do business collections should have some assessment for their customer/people skills. I know this wont happen, but sending the wrong people to deal with customers has lost business to DHL etc.

I guess my main beef about seniority is all the f****** s*** that goes with it - senior men, senior man's duty, their table in the canteen, how you should treat and respect them etc. Crazy. Worst of this seems to be on nights. Perhaps I work at a bad mail center.

BP

[TrueBlueTerrier]

TrueBlueTerrier,

I guess my main beef about seniority is all the f****** s*** that goes with it - senior men, senior man's duty, their table in the canteen, how you should treat and respect them etc. Crazy. Worst of this seems to be on nights. Perhaps I work at a bad mail center.

BP

Thats not seniority at work.

Own table in the canteen - childish thats like dogs marking their territory

How you should treat and respect them - Respect is earned it is never given. They demand respect and you don't respect them because of it,

[axeman]

In japan they give there elders the respect they deserve we in this country have since the thatcher era had a cut throat youth who think they have the right to have what they want now. I'm afraid thats one reason we are in the mess we are now in with the youth of today showing a total lack of respect to elders who in many cultures are reveered for there knowledge etc...

[NWpostie]

In japan they give there elders the respect they deserve we in this country have since the thatcher era had a cut throat youth who think they have the right to have what they want now. I'm afraid thats one reason we are in the mess we are now in with the youth of today showing a total lack of respect to elders who in many cultures are reveered for there knowledge etc...

Thats not the main problem, the Law is too soft, there is no empathisis on Responsibilities along with their Rights, they are not mutually exclusive, these Yobbos expect respect given to them yet give none to others, they need a good kicking in a cell and left to think about it.

The law is seen as too much on the side of these scrotes, not on Law abiding People, the Police is too reactive not proactive, easier to prosecute motorist as it makes crime figures looks good, I feel a riot coming on unless it sorted.

[janitor]

TrueBlueTerrier,

OK I guess due to the nature of our job it would be difficult to replace length of service with anything else when it comes to repicks, although with certain duties like keys and tabs there is an interview as well, but then this can and has led to management favourites getting the duty. In an ideal world the drivers who do business collections should have some assessment for their customer/people skills. I know this wont happen, but sending the wrong people to deal with customers has lost business to DHL etc.

I guess my main beef about seniority is all the f****** s*** that goes with it - senior men, senior man's duty, their table in the canteen, how you should treat and respect them etc. Crazy. Worst of this seems to be on nights. Perhaps I work at a bad mail center.

BP

Yes i agree about the customer/people skills bit, the amount of times I've had to try to repair the damage done by a business customer coming into contact with a DOM is unbelievable, most of them try to see me now if things go wrong.

[andy.m]

by the way, as im a resererve and my days off constantly change, am i still entilted to a long weekend every 6 weeks?

[POSTMAN]

by the way, as im a resererve and my days off constantly change, am i still entilted to a long weekend every 6 weeks?

See this thread.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... ks#p172173" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;