CWU enviromental reps course at Alvescot next week

[dvbuk55]

Well said dvbuk55....I see our resident political officer wants a reasoned debate...well he would wouldn't he?

Not all of us have the time or the priviledge to spend a weeks paid release at Alvescott talking hot air....reasoned debate?

No thanks!

All the CWU should be bothered about is terms and conditions...something it is, frankly, pathetic on...

What is wrong with wanting a debate around the issue of whether or not the CWU should see the enviroment as one its issues? The CWU powers that be are clearly going down this route so I would have thought brining this to attention of this site and having mbrs of this site putting forward solid coherent arguments as to why the Enviroment is not a trade union issue or is a TU issue would be a good thing. Forgive my ignorance but I thought the mods and the site owner wanted high quality debates on this site, obvisouly you know something i dont.


The CWU is not the only union going down this route and some such as the PCS are well and truly already there!!!!

It could be said this is a debate for all trade union members, especially as the TUC is into the enviroment agenda.

My Mum, God rest her soul, always used to say - "If such and such stuck their hand in the fire does that mean you have to" - I think you'll get the drift.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I will have to hold my judgement of whether having a course at Alvescott is a good idea or not, or whether it could be done as a Correspondence course.

However, in general, I would say that having environmental reps as a speciality could be a good idea especially in large Units such as MCs and RDCs. I am pretty sure that when H&S reps were first introduced the same debate would have gone on, probably on line as well if it the internet was around. We all complain about RM ignoring H&S issues and if there are environmental issues I am sure the CWU could operate from a position of strength when discussing any concerns.

Would an environmental rep have more power over a IR Rep when its too cold or too hot in an office, Would he have responsibility for representing recycling matters within his/her unit. For instance how many cardboard sleeves are just disposed of rather than reused. What about route planning for the drivers to help cut down on carbon emissions etc.

I can see plenty of scope for having Environmental reps but |I would be concerned that they would not have a direct impact on day to day concerns of members and would therefore be perceived as a waste of time.

Lots to think about before I decide which side I am on in this debate.

[stokes11eg]

So. if they're going to be responsible for 'Environment issues at work"will i now have to stand half a mile away from the building for my smokes??? And will they be able to do something about the noxious gasses escaping from some of my male comrades?

[dvbuk55]

I don't think there is any comparison between an H&S Rep and an environment rep. Issues concerning H&S are a daily concern and have an immediate impact whereas the environment is a long term issue that is not going to be solved without recourse to huge resources on both a national and international level. TBH I think it is presumptuous to suggest that the TUC or CWU are going to influence the outcome of environmental issues on any scale. I mean there is some room for debate as to whether they have influenced RM in any shape or form in reconciling our terms on pay and conditions which in relation to global warming should be small beer. I wonder who will be taking the course - and how much they will be paid - but hey, maybe I am just an old cynic

[planx]

The whole environment rep role needs to be defined at HQ level. There will be a need to decide what the minimum release time should be and what the interface between E-reps, IR Reps & managment shall be.

There have been similar "what a bloody waste of time" debates around ULRs (Union Learning Reps) with many 'old school' reps thinking that they're just a waste of time, however many members (nationally speaking) have found them invaluable.

Maybe several years down the line we may think that e-reps are great and even necessary as the voice of conscience to big employers in forcing them to take responsibilities for their long term impact on this fragile planet. God knows there is a need as many big employers put profit above everything.

I'm looking forward to hearing Big Daz's views after he's done the course.

In the mean time though....why is there not a national ballot????

One out, all out!

[dvbuk55]

The whole environment rep role needs to be defined at HQ level. There will be a need to decide what the minimum release time should be and what the interface between E-reps, IR Reps & managment shall be.

There have been similar "what a bloody waste of time" debates around ULRs (Union Learning Reps) with many 'old school' reps thinking that they're just a waste of time, however many members (nationally speaking) have found them invaluable.

Maybe several years down the line we may think that e-reps are great and even necessary as the voice of conscience to big employers in forcing them to take responsibilities for their long term impact on this fragile planet. God knows there is a need as many big employers put profit above everything.

I'm looking forward to hearing Big Daz's views after he's done the course.

In the mean time though....why is there not a national ballot????

One out, all out!

Hey lets not get carried away - lets deal with the big issues, like organising courses on the environment, I think the original tone of the anti-posts was the fact that there seems to be too little attention paid to the issues that address the immediate problems we face not something that is beyond the purview of the CWU.

[andy2007]

So why is it beyond the purview of the CWU, to address Environmental issues?
RMG have been going on about their so-called Environmentally Friendly attitude. Yet we've all seen the evidence that, that is a load of rubbish. We've got people doing deliveries, in cars, and even 4x4s. If their emissions were included in RM's figures, they wouldn't look so Green. In fact, they would become a laughing-stock. For example: The cleanest Jeep on the market, produces 255g/Km of C02! Aparently, there is actually a clean Landrover (179g/Km). But the full sized ones, and the older ones, still have dirty emissions. And then there's the people with older cars, and in some cases, even sporty cars.

Then there's the Plasma Screens, which seem to be all over the place. They're left on 24 hours a day. If you consider how many they have Nationally, that's a huge amount of Electricity that they're wasting. Just so that when someone walks past them, they're already on. Haven't they heard of Motion Sensors?
They could have them just stay on for half an hour or so after someone walks past. Then switch off, until someone else gets there. Just think of the Electric they'd save! That'd help the budget, as well as the Environment.

That's just 2 things "off the top of my head". There's probably countless other examples of wasted chances.

[dvbuk55]

So why is it beyond the purview of the CWU, to address Environmental issues?
RMG have been going on about their so-called Environmentally Friendly attitude. Yet we've all seen the evidence that, that is a load of rubbish. We've got people doing deliveries, in cars, and even 4x4s. If their emissions were included in RM's figures, they wouldn't look so Green. In fact, they would become a laughing-stock. For example: The cleanest Jeep on the market, produces 255g/Km of C02! Aparently, there is actually a clean Landrover (179g/Km). But the full sized ones, and the older ones, still have dirty emissions. And then there's the people with older cars, and in some cases, even sporty cars.

Then there's the Plasma Screens, which seem to be all over the place. They're left on 24 hours a day. If you consider how many they have Nationally, that's a huge amount of Electricity that they're wasting. Just so that when someone walks past them, they're already on. Haven't they heard of Motion Sensors?
They could have them just stay on for half an hour or so after someone walks past. Then switch off, until someone else gets there. Just think of the Electric they'd save! That'd help the budget, as well as the Environment.

That's just 2 things "off the top of my head". There's probably countless other examples of wasted chances.

And exactly what has that got to do with getting a pay rise, improving working conditions, stopping workplace bullying by managers, stopping executive action, imposed duty changes, unjustified sackings, part time contracts - tree hugging should definitely not be on the agenda before the few issues I've mentioned off the top of my head.

[andy2007]

What does it have to do with getting a Pay Rise?
If we saved the money they're wasting, on running loads of Plasma Screens, in corridors, meeting rooms, etc.. When there's no-one to watch them. Saving the money they waste on totally unneccessary paperwork. Particularly as they're adding loads more, due to WCM. Then there will be more money available to pay for a Pay Rise.

And while we're on the subject: What about all the jobs that would be saved, if everyone stopped using their own cars on Deliveries?
You can deliver a Hell of a lot more Mail with a car, than without. And that's costing jobs, and causing mamagement bullying, of those who refuse to use their cars.

There's more to Green issues, than hugging trees. There's jobs, and money to be saved!

[Lounge Lizard]

Whether or not we've got Environmental reps Royal Mail will carry on regardless having fewer larger Mail centres so that post has two journeys of a hundred miles instead of o twenty mile direct run and will still push ahead with replacing bicycles with van shares. Environmental reps could tell RM what they like but they will only hear what they want to.

[dvbuk55]

What does it have to do with getting a Pay Rise?
If we saved the money they're wasting, on running loads of Plasma Screens, in corridors, meeting rooms, etc.. When there's no-one to watch them. Saving the money they waste on totally unneccessary paperwork. Particularly as they're adding loads more, due to WCM. Then there will be more money available to pay for a Pay Rise.

And while we're on the subject: What about all the jobs that would be saved, if everyone stopped using their own cars on Deliveries?
You can deliver a Hell of a lot more Mail with a car, than without. And that's costing jobs, and causing mamagement bullying, of those who refuse to use their cars.

There's more to Green issues, than hugging trees. There's jobs, and money to be saved!

By "they" I presume you mean Royal Mail and lets be perfectly honest with ourselves here, when has the CWU influenced the way Royal Mail conducts business? - private vehicles have been in use all the years I have been with RM and suddenly it's an issue requiring a course on environmentalism by the union? If it was a big enough issue then I'm sure the Government would have addressed it and please don't say the CWU will influence the Government too - only by the grace of God and circumstances are we not marching down the privatisation road.

The analogy of environmental issues reminds me of King Canute sitting on a chair on the beach commanding the sea to go back, it didn't pay any attention to him but it did go back when the tide turned.

[andy2007]

What does it have to do with getting a Pay Rise?
If we saved the money they're wasting, on running loads of Plasma Screens, in corridors, meeting rooms, etc.. When there's no-one to watch them. Saving the money they waste on totally unneccessary paperwork. Particularly as they're adding loads more, due to WCM. Then there will be more money available to pay for a Pay Rise.

And while we're on the subject: What about all the jobs that would be saved, if everyone stopped using their own cars on Deliveries?
You can deliver a Hell of a lot more Mail with a car, than without. And that's costing jobs, and causing mamagement bullying, of those who refuse to use their cars.

There's more to Green issues, than hugging trees. There's jobs, and money to be saved!

By "they" I presume you mean Royal Mail and lets be perfectly honest with ourselves here, when has the CWU influenced the way Royal Mail conducts business? - private vehicles have been in use all the years I have been with RM and suddenly it's an issue requiring a course on environmentalism by the union? If it was a big enough issue then I'm sure the Government would have addressed it and please don't say the CWU will influence the Government too - only by the grace of God and circumstances are we not marching down the privatisation road.

The analogy of environmental issues reminds me of King Canute sitting on a chair on the beach commanding the sea to go back, it didn't pay any attention to him but it did go back when the tide turned.

By they, I mean the Government and top level RM Management. And yes, I know that we haven't had much luck dealing with these issues yet. But surely a dedicated team of Environmental Reps, would be able to do a better job of bringing these issues to the Public's attention, in a way that would engage them. After all: The Public are voters. They could cause the Government a lot of trouble if they want to. Which is why so many of us are frustrated with the way that I/A is handled. There isn't enough effort put into getting the truth across to the Public.

Still. This is only my opinion. But I'm as entitled to it, as you are to yours.

[dvbuk55]

By they, I mean the Government and top level RM Management. And yes, I know that we haven't had much luck dealing with these issues yet. But surely a dedicated team of Environmental Reps, would be able to do a better job of bringing these issues to the Public's attention, in a way that would engage them. After all: The Public are voters. They could cause the Government a lot of trouble if they want to. Which is why so many of us are frustrated with the way that I/A is handled. There isn't enough effort put into getting the truth across to the Public.

Still. This is only my opinion. But I'm as entitled to it, as you are to yours.

Of course you are, but do we, as members of the CWU feel we are obliged to pay to educate the public on environmental issues? I would have no problem whatsoever in educating the public on the issues on which industrial action is being taken and balloted for, nor on future issues which affects them as a paying customer. I just feel the environment is not a valid pursuit for which funds are being provided.

[andy2007]

By they, I mean the Government and top level RM Management. And yes, I know that we haven't had much luck dealing with these issues yet. But surely a dedicated team of Environmental Reps, would be able to do a better job of bringing these issues to the Public's attention, in a way that would engage them. After all: The Public are voters. They could cause the Government a lot of trouble if they want to. Which is why so many of us are frustrated with the way that I/A is handled. There isn't enough effort put into getting the truth across to the Public.

Still. This is only my opinion. But I'm as entitled to it, as you are to yours.

Of course you are, but do we, as members of the CWU feel we are obliged to pay to educate the public on environmental issues? I would have no problem whatsoever in educating the public on the issues on which industrial action is being taken and balloted for, nor on future issues which affects them as a paying customer. I just feel the environment is not a valid pursuit for which funds are being provided.

Not in itself, no. But while there is so much hype about Environmental issues in general. Such as Wind Farms, Road Tax Breaks for cleaner cars, etc.. I believe that it would be a good move, to have Reps, who are specially trained, to use that to our advantage. If RM can be shown to only pay "lip service" to Environmental issues, and hide a large section of their vehicle "Carbon Footprint", by utilising Posties cars. That could potentially, put them under enough pressure, to put a stop to it Nationwide. They've already banned the use of private cars in some areas.

I just think that it's worth a try. Particularly as it could potentially save jobs, and maybe, even get us a pay rise. Obviously, we can't afford to take any existing Reps off their existing duties, at a time like this. But what's stopping us getting some extra Reps, specifically for this purpose. That way, we would have the same Human Resources available for the existing battles. But would also have extra people, fighting on new fronts. The only cost, would be financial. Surely we pay enough in Subs, to pay for it, don't we?